And who's talking abou an Issur?!?!?!
The guy who steals has a taiva that gets fulfilled to some extent (assur or not) when he's 1M richer than before the robbery, VS P... that Lefy Kul Hanizcar Le'eil there's now way to get any "richer" at all...

vehkam wrote on 27 Mar 2025 12:12:

I'd add one more thing to this excellent point, which is that the same would likely be true of the other wife. Meaning to say, in all probability, you'd tire of the 'hardcore' second wife, and all of the sudden what was the 'woman of your dreams' is now old news. And so you'd go looking, on a never-ending and never-satisfying journey of lust. Just ask anyone here, we've all experienced this, whether in the context of porn that used to excite us, or those who've tired of porn and moved on to in-person encounters..

"but Im Kein Kumt Ois that Hashem gave us a desire that there is no way in the world to fulfill for no money, so then why were we given this desire?!?!?!"

in order to give you the ability to say no and achieve endless pleasure in the next world

ייש״כ על החיזוק ! 

הנני להוסיף על דברי רבינו וקם שליט״א בהוספת נופך כיהודה ועוד לקרא. 
​מצינו ענין ״מים גנובים ימתקו״ , ומבואר בגמ׳ סוף נדרים שגם הנואפים רוצים שיהא המעשה נעשה באיסור דווקא בכדי שיהא להם יותר תאוה והנאה.

וצריך עיון להבין הענין הרע הזה, כי לכאורה לא מיירי בנואף שרוצה להכעיס את בוראו (כמנשה המלך) שעושה דבר בלי הנאה כדי לעבור על איסור תורה, אלא בנואף כפשוטו, אשר מגמתו וחפצו הנאת עצמו, ואף בזה נאמר ״מים גנובים ימתקו״, שיש טעם מתיקות מיוחד במה שאסור לו דווקא. 

ולענ״ד נראה ששתי תשובות בדבר. חדא, הא דכבר נאמר כאן על ידי הרב iwantlife שליטא , שהאדם תמיד יש לו חפץ במה שאין לו דווקא, וזהו סוד ענין ״משביעו רעב״ כי השובע גופא מחייב רעבון למה שעדיין לא השביע נפשו ממנו, what is unavailable is sweet because it’s exciting in its inaccessible state ועיין היטב בדברי הרמב״ן על הקרא ״למען ספות הרוה״ וינעם לך. 

אכן עוד נראה לי, שיש טעם מיוחד במה שהאדם עובר ונוטל שלא כדת , כי יש טעם מיוחד שהוא טעם בשליטת עצמיותו ושליטת גבורת נפשו to TAKE WHAT HE WANTS. “I conquered “ adds a sweetness to the pleasure that is not there without it. The pleasure of the hunt, the win, the conquest, makes it sweet. 

ונראה שזהו מיסודי הנפש הרמה המשתוקקת לשלוט בשלימות וזהו ממידת מלכות שבהנפש, והבן. כי מי שטועם טעם התגברות על מניעות נפשיים מצד עצם כח עצמיותו כבר טעם משלימות החיים. 

 ומעתה יש לנו פנים חדשות בעומק דברי רבינו וקם שליטא שעיקר אוצר מתיקות הלזה שמור למי שמתגבר על תאוות האלו ומשיג שלימות בנפשו על ידם להפכם לחיות של דביקות. כי המגביר רצון פנימי הבא מרצונו העמוק להתגבר על המתיקות של מים גנובים כבר מצא באר החיים הממתיק מתוק במר ומר במתוק. וטועם של שלימות החיים. 

יה״ר שנזכו לכך, ולטעום מרב טוב הצפון לנפשות בצרור 

החיים 

Why am I that guy who just can't play the game??? Why can't I forget??? Why can't I forgive???

One of my favorite line's is "if you hurt me I have the right to be hurt and yell ouch", there are the majority of people who when hurt by a loved one, they'll push it under the rug, play the game as if nothing happened, when being told sorry by the hurter they'll say no it's nothing it's ok blah blah blah... but I'll say either apology accepted or how dare you do such a thing...

Sometime's the hurter will say, you're just overly sensitive, I didn't mean to hurt you, I just had to do what I had to do, and it's you're problem for deciding to feel hurt... whereas the majority of people will buy that and move on.... but I'll say my favorite line mentioned above, "how dare you shut me up, you hurt acknowledge it, and if you didn't mean it at least be sorry for doing something without thinking that maybe someone will be hurt by your actions, so I have the right to feel hurt AND to yell ouch"...

While most people will just move on in life, I'll never forget what has been done to me wether intentionally or not, I'll just wait and show you that I'm upset at you until you buckle under and beg me for forgiveness...

While most people will forgive at that point, I'll still need to feel that you really mean it, you really admit to your guilt and you own your mistake, in order for me to be able to forgive...

Why? Why? Why? Why am I like this?!?!?! Yeah I know my wife says I'm just a very "real" person, I don't do all the diplomatic b.s., but that's only till she's the one that I'm upset at... (which just happened...)

Sorry for my rant, just Pesach is coming up and being by my parents is inevitable (I can't pack off to isreal like I did purim) and my anxiety levels are sky rocketing like crazy, I just can't stop thinking of being there with all my siblings, quiet and reserved in my corner, feeling judged by everyone around me...

ouch. ouch. 
it hurts.
it's a positive not to pretend (to yourself) that it doesnt hurt when it does. but that doesnt make it feel better...

Im happy that you can talk to us here, that something. I hope that things get a bit better inside... 
Here's a warm hand,
המצפה לחיים  

Thanks my dear mentor @chaimoigen, I can feel your warm hand.

But why? Why if I'm the most successful person in my family, I'm the only one holding an esteemed job, I'm a known public figure, beloved by the people in my community, talented in many areas beruchnius ubegashmius, yet at home I'm still just a stupid extra thing that's just a shame that was born in the end, I know I might be over exaggerating, but it's just the way I'm made to feel every time I'm together with family, nobody values what I say or my opinions, my successes in all areas of life are just a coincidence it's got nothing to do with me personally, the only thing they see in me is my flaws (which fyi everyone has some flaws...) and other than being able to use me and my talents, I'm utterly worthless, this is just how I feel around my close ones.

But I must admit, writing these thoughts in a vulnerable way which I never voice to anyone including my dear wife (other than just in a critical way, but never in a vulnerable way) does help me get it off my chest a bit, just like writing my dark secrets about p&m help me stay away from it, and gives me the ability to have some mercy on the poor @moishelle who's in pain, and the real me can have mercy on him just like I have mercy on my children or any other person other than myself, so being that @moishelle is not the real me I feel his pain and try to give him a "warm hand". Thanks for listening and letting me rant.

Moishelle!!

This is an extremely interesting thread!
I am fascinated by that Kasha you asked about why does H' give us the desire for non-true-intimacy sexual activities.
I'd like to let that Kasha Koch for a little while...

I don't want you to feel patronized, however I also second and third guess people's complements. even people who normally I trust.

In your last post I heard myself talking, but when I saw it coming from someone else It sounded different...
You wrote:
"Why am I that guy who just can't play the game??? Why can't I forget??? Why can't I forgive???"

and then a few lines later:
"how dare you shut me up, you hurt - acknowledge it, and if you didn't mean it - at least be sorry for doing something without thinking that maybe someone will be hurt by your actions, so I have the right to feel hurt AND to yell ouch".

Also, in an earlier post you wrote how you want true intimacy but also p*** etc.
And how you harbour negative feelings to your father for constantly beating up on you, but on the other hand so much understanding and respect for him!!

DUDE you are so real and cool and beautifully complicated!!!
We are FULL of Stirros! We want but we dont want. we care but we dont care. we love but we hate.

Listen to this Vort:
Eliyahu HaNavi comes to H' complaining that Klal Yisroel are not keeping their Bris with H'. And that he alone IS.
He's a man of Emes! Bringing that Emes to H'.
But H' tells him "Lo Braash H', Lo Ba'aish....Kol Demmama Daka..."
H' then commands him: from now you will be Eliyahu Malach HaBris...

WHAT??!! Wasn't Eliyahu looking negatively at Klal Yisroel??!! I would have expected someone who sees Klal Yisroel as Shomrei HaBris to be the one to be the Malach HaBris?!
I wonder if the Pshat is H' was telling Eliyahu: You are Mr Emes, be Mr Emes fully!
In the positive too! See Klal Yisroel as both Non-Shomrei HaBris and as SHOMREI HABRIS!!
Eliyahu was Matzliach in reaching that Madreiga.... and maybe we can strive to do that too....

I think its called "Dialectic thought".
Its the ability to see/perceive/understand something in two different ways that are EXACT opposites!!!

I wonder if the sooner we accept our Dialectic'keit, and show OURSELVES compassion, understanding and respect no matter what!
The more easily we can develop ourselves and be able to show compassion, understanding and respect to OTHERS!  

Hatzlacha Rabba!

I feel a real warmth in my heart for you my dear friend Moishelle!
It might just be b/c its 1:32 AM, but I might just be 2nd guessing myself. LOL

Thank you @icanbreakfree I felt just hitting the thank you button ain't "real" enough for a post that really warmed my heart. so thank you!!!

And it warms MY heart to hear that my post warmed your heart. I am practically floating away from excitement.

Here's a warm hand. 
מן המים משתיהו
Hope that your Yom Tov is full of the Taam of Cheirus, my friend. 

באהבה,
חיים

Hi everyone it's been a while since I last posted (I simply didn't have much to say, all was more or less fine) but I was reading a lot here and I must say there is a lot of inspiring threads here.

This past Thursday I fell once again after about 47 days.

There's nothing really I can blame it on, which is a good thing because now I was forced to take full responsibility for my failure, so I did a lot of deep thinking into my life and what I'm doing wrong, I came to this conclusion:

I've been on GYE for a good few months, I've BH came a really far way, my life has changed in so many ways for the better, and most importantly going from using p&m as my sleeping pill, my boredom pill, anxiety pill, my run to for "love" after a fall out with my loved ones, etc. to BH getting to a place or more accurately a solid mindset that I don't need it at all p&m is overall a no-go, and for the first time in years I was able to fall asleep without any of it, I was able to deal with anxiety, and fall outs...

But here is my shortcoming, although I was willing or better yet excited and motivated to cut p&m out of my life, yet when it comes to basic shmiras eineiyim, just looking at women in the streets, is something that not only was I not working on, but in a way I really am not looking forward to working on it, in a way I want to continue looking and simply enjoying the sites.

Up until now I wasn't afraid of continuing to look, because until I got to the above mentioned mindset of p&m is an overall no-go, when I would see a woman in the street that would tick me off, I would go into zombie mode for the rest of the day just fantasizing about her until I would get home at night and lock myself up in the bathroom for privacy and go for a full blown episode of p&m, but since I got to this new mindset of p&m is a no go, I had basically no struggle at all seeing a triggering woman and nothing would happen to me because if there is nothing I can do about it, then why go into zombie mode.

But I'm not just looking, in a way I'm really addicted to looking, I often find myself driving in places where I know there will be lustful sites, (I call this my "lust drives") I'll try to stick to the route and lane closest to the sidewalks so I can ensure I don't "miss" that passing woman (who once close enough I see that she's not even so gorgeous...), or when waiting for my wife whilst she's shopping I'll try to find a parking spot at the intersection to ensure I dont "miss" any passing women...

The problem is though that when I think about trying to put in the effort to cutting this out, I get this feeling like "no I'm not ready for this, I was happy and willing to give up on the p&m, but I outright don't want to give up looking at women, it's just asking to much from me", and I think IMHO it even makes sense that I feel this way, because everyone knows that pornography is a screwed up way of thinking which more or less didn't exist until about 40 - 60 years ago, but looking at women is a natural desire a person has which is around since the day of creation of mankind, and to be honest it doesn't even feel so wrong, although it is wrong but it just doesn't feel like anything as bad as pornography, so why should I just want to and feel motivated and excited to cut it out of my life.

But the reality is that look what it caused to me, I felt comfortable with my new mindset, I wasn't afraid to take some lust drives after all I'm not going to act out and I didn't go into zombie mode because p&m isn't an option, so I was also not afraid to go filter poking for hours... until I fell...

So now I know that I shouldn't have gotten so comfortable with just this mindset, and being totally Hefker with my shmiras eineiyim, I have to really work on it just as importantly as I worked on p&m, but I will need hard work and I'm open to any ideas and help anyone can offer.

Thank you all my dear GYE brothers. 

There’s honesty and growth in this post. You’re growing and changing. It’s ok if it doesn’t happen all at once! Keep going!!

Remember, working on “regular” Shmiras Enayim isn’t a “all-or-nothing” choice.
Every day, there are many challenges that will come a person’s way. Even if you feel that you’re not yet ready to take on the idea of being super-careful and cutting out all casual looking, you can still take steps to upgrade and enhance your day, to have it be less lustful and more Taharadik. So choosing a more sheltered parking space while waiting for your wife can be an active choice you make, even while it’s still hard to look away when someone walks into your field of vision… 

The reality is that true change is usually born of the growth that comes of a thousand small choices.
Making small changes will help you grow and get to the place where you’ll be wanting and ready to grow further. (And a thousand small licks of lustful looking will pull you down and make it more likely to fall into worse shmutz). Every small choice has the special taste of “Uvacharta BaCHAIM”. And that’s a gift!
Keep trucking, friend. 

Here’s a warm hand, 
Chaim Oigen