אדרבה , I'm honored to host this exciting discussion on my thread!

Muttel

Buddy, you can do anything, up to using my style...

- Yiftach'l

yiftach wrote on 20 Jun 2024 18:04:

Just felt like I was feeling good about myself and was just reminding myself of where I am! My apologies, dear friend!

MutteL

hahahahahahahah, what a great laugh I wish I read this all earlier
No offense, you guys are nuts (in a good way)

happyid1 wrote on 20 Jun 2024 19:08:

All people, regardless of their past or current habits, can use a little loosening up...
Smile, my friends! It's wonderful to be a little nuts! And don't forget...KEEP TRUCKING!

Muttel wrote on 20 Jun 2024 18:08:

Def belongs on the "Just Having Fun" thread...  

To my dearest GYE friends,

I'd like to broach a new topic with the Olam. I've mentioned that after my wedding, I was porn/masturbation free (I've stopped saying clean - because I don't think I was) until COVID19- when I fell with a work laptop my wife brought home that wasn't filtered. There's something else that resumed then as well - a bit embarrassing - and I'd like to get the Olam's take if possible. That is the following of sports (not as inappropriate web use as porn but...). I'd found better things to occupy my time with during that 12-year span (even more - about 15-18 years) - תורה, עבודה, וגמ"ח... and hadn't a clue who was playing for the yankees, giants, rangers, or knicks (I was a super avid fan in my pre-teen - young teen years).

When I fell into P&M, I also began following sports, albeit primarily baseball and not as closely as in my younger years. In my current עבודה in HHM's program - where I can't fantasize about women - if a thought or sight comes to mind, I immediately shift to thinking of baseball players.

I'm looking to rid myself of following sports completely - but am hesitant to do so for the following 2 reasons 1) I'm scared it'll be too much for me and cause me to relapse into my lustful behavior. 2) I need something to replace sports with as my distraction from lustful thoughts.

I'm looking for feedback from the Olam in regard to both concerns. All responses would be greatly appreciated!!!!

I remain, 
Muttel

Great question!
It's amazing to watch you soar!

My personal opinion is that for  now stick to the sports. If you dig deep and you truly think you can distract yourself with something really kosher, mah tov umah na'im. But I'd imagine that very few can find themselves a new, fulfilling hobby that will help them distract themselves at the same time that they are undergoing such major change and doing such amazing, hard work.

That being said, you should have a plan to drop the sports at some point in the future. Just not yet.

Inspired as always,
Eerie

Woooah!!!! Are you writing about your struggles or mine? This is something I’ve been grappling with for the past few months. When I was a בחור, I was an avid sports fan. I loved watching and following professional sports. About 18-19 years ago, I quit cold turkey. I told myself, that besides for the ביטול תורה involved, it’s not לפי כבוד of a Yungerman in Kollel to be following such Shtusim. Also, my kids were still young and I didn’t want them to grow up with a father figure that was a sports fan. Well what do you know, most of my children have no interest whatsoever in following sports, but I have one son, who when he was going through a rough time, became an avid sports fan as a way to distract himself from the pain he was in. After consulting with an אדם גדול who by any definition is דעת תורה, I was told to spend some time with my son watching highlight clips of sports. We actually sat together to watch the Superbowl (obviously we closed it by the commercials and the halftime show). It was exactly what my son needed, and ב"ה today he is שטייגינג in a way that fills me with joy. But one negative fallout from that whole episode was that my old interest in sports was ignited. Not to the same extent, but awakened nonetheless.

The struggle is amplified many times over during Bein Hazmanim. Lots of free time, wife busier then usual, and the day to day schedule that serves as a distraction to some extent, isn’t there. This is actually what led me to start posting on my own thread. 

When I started my clean streak, I gave up on lust, something that I felt I had almost a right to. Anyway, I told myself, that if I’m giving up on lust, it’s not so bad if I allow myself to indulge in my old pastime of sports. It’s not ideal, there’s the ביטול תורה that’s involved, but when I feel the itch, that’s what I’ll turn to to distract myself. I second eerie’s notion, that although it’s not ideal, it can be a good and (Kosher?) distraction for guys like us. 

A word of caution. The world of  professional sports is one of entertainment. There is often an overlap between the entertainment industry of sports and other, less kosher venues of entertainment. It is imperative to exercise extreme caution, that when one is engaging in following, he is doing so in order to avoid falling into the slippery slope of Shmutz. To watch passively, especially for someone with a history of porn abuse can be a recipe for disaster. It doesn’t take long for one thing to lead to another....... I don’t have to explain. However when done correctly, I have found that it can be a useful tool to distract from light urges that come and go. I don't think that when one is in "lust mode", that it would be advisable.

Obviously, the long term goal should be to strive for the ideal, that all of our passions should be in spiritual pursuits, but for the time being, this works for me.

luz up, continue following sports,
its the יצר הרע driving you crazy, making issues out of tissues ,to distract you and try to make you fall, by telling you the tools your using to fight are BAD.
(nothing wrong with giving up sports but its got nothing to do with this battle)
stay focused!
love you!

Thanks all for the responses!

Nothing like a straightforward, blunt response from our dear cande, with his love pulsating through his clear direct message.

Thank you, and I love you too!

Muttel

Nothing indeed like Cande's love. However, I believe a point has to me made.  Forgive me R’ Cande for being a nit picker. I could be wrong, but I don't think that it's the YH that's fueling this question. I agree that for the time being, it would be wise for one to use the sports as an outlet and a distraction from the main battle we are fighting which is lust. However, I believe that if your read between the lines of R’ Muttel’s post, it’s filled with a yearning to go back to the days of yore, where the internal desire was one of spirituality only. By definition, one who follows sports and needs the outlet to distract him, is living a somewhat compromised version of Judaism. The program of תורה and מצוות when done correctly, provides all possible stimulation needed, to live the most fulfilling life, replete with joy and contentment, with no need for any other entertainment. If outside factors are needed, it point to a certain deficiency in his תורה and מצוות.

I write this as one who is currently in this situation myself. As a recovering lustaholic, I acknowledge the fact that I am not functioning at optimal capacity. However, I will never ever let go of my dreams hopes and aspirations, to one day be able to derive all of my satisfaction from רוחניות. Sports right now for me serves a very distinct purpose - to combat the occasional urge that comes and goes. But it's a means to an end, one which we should never lose sight of.

Muttel wrote on 23 Jun 2024 15:27:

I would not make it a goal to avoid sports.  I would say to Keep shteiging in your connection and relationship to hashem. In time the sports may eventually fall away on their own. 

I've been looking at the latest messages on your beautiful thread Reb Muttel for about 1 hour - unsure if I can adequately articulate the thought that won't come clearly out of my head. You seem to think very lowly of sports, while at the same time you seem to have found a holy reason if ever there was one to be involved with them. The best solution isn't necessarily the objectively optimal one. Keep striving for growth but be cautious with aspirations of perfection. Vehaseir Satan Milfaneinu Umeiachareinu. 

Concurring with the previous responses: Keep doing what you are doing and number 2) will fall into place when the time is right, and that will take care of 1).

Your accomplishments are monumental and a true inspiration!
Hatzlacha

Muttel wrote on 23 Jun 2024 15:27:

Why is it that your break of watching sports ended when you began watching porn again?! Maybe has somewhat to do with our conversation, albeit on a lesser degree?!

If yeah, then strengthening your commitment to kedusha will automatically cause your need to watch sports to evaporate. I never followed sports too intensely, but began following more when I was watching porn. As I let go of porn, the rest fell into place.

Let it happen by itself, why push urself to a corner?!

- Yiftach'l