I will address al rishon rishon, though not with the same arichus. I’ve been trained to get to the point.

Marriage. I hope by dating I’ll  see if we are compatible. Of course marriage takes work and there are no guarantees. Nothing is guaranteeed in life. 

shmiras habris. Having read the threads, it is clear thst the act is much more than a replacement for MB. But when performed with the proper intent, there should be no need to MB. 

pas besalo there are no guarantees. Clearly lust is a lifelong challenge. But one of the suggested ways for dealing with it is marriage 

loneliness I will concede that marriage does not in and of itself guarantee a remedy. But in the context of a healthy marriage, this is usually provided. We all hope for a healthy marriage. 


Bayis. Again nothing is guaranteed. We hope for the best. And with proper guidance the probability is there. Siata dish maya is necessary, but no reason to delay shiduchim 

Perfection. This is a lifetime pursuit. No reason to delay marriage for this reason. 

In sum, inyaney kedusha are something that we have to work on as early as the teen years, going forward. But this is a lifetime project. Marriage with proper preparation is the best unit within which to engage in this. It is counter productive to delay getting married until you’ve mastered the myriad of issues that have to be addressed.

So after having reviewed what’s been written about it on this forum and having given it consideration and reflection, I was just adding my 2 sense to the mix. 

I’d be intrigued to read responds from jewizard21 and others. Life is a learning process and my opinion may change. 

    Even when you find the right person you will have differences and conflicts. Things that seem small to you can be big issues to her, decisions made without including the other because "I thought you wouldn't mind/would say yes" and other types of things can cause bumps in the road and maybe worse of not dealt with pr adapted to.

    Even with the proper intent on what sex in marriage really is, which I doubt you or I truly will understand till we are married but till then can only speculate and hope to have a proper choson teacher, there is still lust. There are many factors involved and it's not as simple as "I am now having sex so I don't need masturbation". What happens if you get an urge and she is a Nida/after child birth or even just not in the mood, you may be tempted to just get it over with and masturbate . Again having her in mind and being considerate to her is vital to a healthy relationship.

    If people are suggesting to you that marriage is a way to "deal" with it then they are wrong.

    What do you mean that there's no reason to delay shidduchim? With regards to binyan habayis if you are not financially and mentally prepared then it could be detrimental to you and your family. Again siyata dishmaya does not replace hishtadlus, if you are gonna learn and have someone support you then your hishtadlus is to learn. Others have other circumstances.

    This is case by case but it is not always way counter productive to delay shidduchim/marriage. Me for instance, I don't have parnasa or others to provide parnasa, schooling is extremely time constraining (this is a really difficult degree) I feel it would be wrong to start a relationship with someone when I can't even give them a the time of day.
    I hope you can tell by the way I've thought about these topics that one of the things I want most in life right now is to get married. But a very important thing to remember is that marriage is not about the "me" it's about the us, and right now, no matter how much I want to, I am not prepared for the "us". We have to remember that Hashem has a plan for all of us.

    Life is a journey, and on this journey there are many hardships. Overcoming this nisoyon is not a instant win nor a final win, it is a fight that we Must take One Day At A Time. Life is one day at a time, and the only way to be prepared for the future or to better/maintain ourselves is to tale today and do the best to be the person we want to become. We can't wait till any set date to figure stuff out because who knows what the future holds, we only control the present, and in the present we obtain perfection in the future.


Keep on Trucking, One Day At A Time!!

livingagain wrote on 24 Jan 2025 01:04:

If someone can have proper intimacy maybe that can help them stop masturbating (and maybe not). But what if masturbating prevents them from having proper intimacy? What about when she's a nidah for 2 weeks, or a couple of months after childbirth? Intimacy isn't just much more than masturbating, it's not the same thing at all. 


Sorry that I'm repeating myself, but marital intimacy is not lust. If you bring that lust into your bedroom, then it will still be lust, which will hinder intimacy. It will also likely show up elsewhere. A marriage that starts with sex as an answer to lust puts its foundations in taking, which makes it a poor Plan A. The internal work and the lust need to be addressed before pas besalo enters the scene. 


I'm still hearing a mixed message. You need to prepare for marriage, and this is part of the preparation. Maybe not a full stop, but to say waiting is counterproductive again sounds like you feel you have a better chance of dealing with inyanei kedusha issues after marriage, which is not necessarily true and also disincentivizing to put in the proper work now. 


My Brother, it is not my intention to sound hard, but I think it's important to be clear, so we can understand where each other is coming from. 
Kol Tov

Hi livingagain and chevra

Just to reiterate a couple of the points which were already said which resonate the most with me 

The yh for arayos is something literally every (healthy) man has to contend with. And when that healthy person gets married, and forms a bond with his wife through much hard work, he will probably find that his struggle has gotten much easier.

But when a person is struggling with this yh in a way which goes beyond what's normal for a 'healthy' person, then the same things inside which are causing him to struggle are almost guaranteed to prevent him from having that marriage which he wants, which would have made his struggle easier.
What's more - these same issues may cause the marriage itself to be a very very painful experience which not only doesn't help but becomes a catalyst for acting out.

(Anecdotally, before I got married my Rebbi told me that in marriage I will experience emotions which are more painful than anything I'd experienced before. And this was after a childhood which included very real trauma. And a Rebbi who is a very emotionally healthy person. And he was right.) 

So bottom line - if the issues go beyond 'healthy male', they must be dealt with. Dealing with them before getting married is a very good idea for multiple reasons. If a person succeeds in dealing with those issues before getting married, and success is a sliding scale, we have to work our whole lives to improve, then they will find that now they're a normal healthy male, which includes a real degree of struggle. But that struggle will likely be helped with marriage, provided that the marriage is worked on a lot.

All the above posts were excellent. I think there is some confusion in the world about Chazal's term "pas b'salo", so i would like to make the following distinction. A bochur beginning the shidduch process has to really understand this.

If someone has occasional inappropriate thoughts and maybe even masturbates occasionally, then marriage can be referred to pas b'salo. Although a wife is not supposed to be viewed or treated as a kosher masturbation tool, and despite the fact that there is never a "need" to release, the fact is that a man looks forward to releasing and now has a mutar way to do so. Hopefully his bedroom is a place that he focuses on giving and the release is a side benefit, but whatever the case may be, his kosher sex will now replace his imagined need for a once in a while masturbation.

Someone who is watching pornography - which is nothing less than cheating on his future wife should not begin to date unless he will be open about his struggle with the young lady during the dating process. Marriage never replaces pornography. It simply can't. Pornography is sheker. Brainwashing actors and actresses do things that no normal goy wants to do in their bedrooms - your future wife definitely will be nauseated if asked to join in these acts. The only reason the "stars" are smiling is because they are getting paid to do so. One will never be able to imitate the fantasy life of what is seen online. So, within a month or two of marriage, the new chosson reverts back to his bad habit of watching - and betrays his wife that he promised his loyalty too. No "pas b'salo" here at all.

Guys who are heavy masturbators should also not rely on marriage solving their issue. If a fellow masturbates numerous times a week, he has to face the reality that he will not typically be having sex with his wife numerous times a week. The guys who try that during the early stages of marriage often "shut down" their wives who feel very objectified by the constant sex. And as mentioned there are halachacilly forbidden times which can sometimes be longer than expected; many women after becoming pregnant are simply not up to it for a few months. So no "pas b'salo" here either.

Guys, do yourselves a favor! Walk down to your chupas clean and with your heads screwed on straight. You will iyh have the most beautiful marriages and you will b'ezras Hashem taste the true immense pleasure of sex which is very different and awesomely greater than anything seen online.

Just a little update because I feel like I need to post. Im not getting triggered BH, but I am feeling more vulnerable right now. I think its because my break is over and I am anticipating the work and stress which may be leading me to be a bit lax in some areas. Also I'm back in the city so that comes with it's own challenges.

Loneliness wise BH I am not really struggling (as in not getting too sad). I think its because of a mindset that I knew about, but only now I've started to internalize it. 
    I have to accept that I am at a stage of growth and am not ready for marriage. In many ways I am ready and even somewhat pining but I have to remember that marriage is not just for me, it's for me and my wife. I am not at a place in life that I am available for me and my wife,  and I need to take time for me so that I can be ready for the "us".
    I also have to accept that she is on her own path to being ready for "us". One of my irrational thoughts for is that I feel bad for my wife that I am not in shidduchim because she has to go through all those dates that don't work out (or worse) and I'm not even in the system. She has her own journey as I have mine.
    Who knows the people we need to meet, the experiences we need to have, and the challenges we need to deal with in order to truly appreciate and support each other.
    Sorry for the random thoughts . Also btw im around 300 days. The most significant day of all those days is the one I am on now. Each day taken One Day At A Time with Hashems help. It's never easy, but it gets easier. It's 1000% worth it coming from a single guy.


Keep on Trucking, One Day At A Time!!

I'm not feeling great and I've got a lot to do. The only thing I can do to make it better is try my best and wait. This doesn't nesicarilly apply to one thing. I'm semi-sick, tired, exhausted, and kind of annoyed. Writing this just so that I can know that people are reading it and that makes it a bit easier. I'll be on watch so that I don't play out fantasies that may popup.

On a side note, Today is day 301 ODAAT.

Yesterday was really stressful. Baruch Hashem today is so much better even though i still have a bunch of stress but Ive dealt with part of it and now on to the next part. Pushing things off makes things worse.

Keep on Trucking, One Day At A Time!!

(I had a wet dream last night that I think was because of all the stress. I know it's subconscious so I am not mentally affected by it, but I just need to note it.)

    I feel exhausted by my ideals. I don't feel like I want to contradict them. The payoff just feels so distant and that's extremely discouraging. I'm doing so much effort with regards to shmiras einayim and shmiras habris but I won't be able to even start shidduchim because I am not in the situation where that is available to me. I am working on securing a parnasa to support my future family but right now its very difficult (remember this is not to say that I want to contradict what I am doing). I just wish that certain things could be a bit different because right now life seems like a ton of effort with little reward.

I also have a little voice in my head saying that if I was married that life would be better. Yes I know 100% in some ways it is with regards to loneliness and connection. But if we are being honest its not all sunshine and rainbows. Im not trying to be a downer, I'll explain. Right now I am really stressed and exhausted. As a single guy that is lonely -- I have friends/family and don't feel lonely in that sense but in the aspect of being truly connected with someone on a deep level that can only be achieved in marriage -- I sometimes think to myself that if I were married that the stress would be easier to deal with. I think that's because it makes the challenge and reward feel more instantaneous. But that seems extremely selfish because I don't want to burden my wife and family with this as well. 

I guess what I am saying is that I wish I had more support in all my life from outside sources. Because having to stand my ground alone against the odds over and over is extremely exahsting. 

Any advice and feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Keep on Trucking, One Day At A Time!!

Brother !!! I m married have kids have friends and have family yet sometimes (like this minute) I feel so darn lonely , so I'll venture to say it's really the person not the circumstances .           Keep climbing
       #hashemneedseveryyid

Looking to see if someone else is looking is still a form of looking. Just like second hand smoking is a form of smoking, this is second hand looking.

jewizard21 wrote on 27 Feb 2025 13:25:

I think I know exactly what you mean.

jewizard21 wrote on 26 Feb 2025 03:35:

Firstly let me say that the fact you have the courage to come in here and share your feelings, is an amazing thing. 
On top of that, to put in the work that you have done, fighting a tremendous battle with the ugly forces, is truly something I look up to. 

As far as the loneliness thing, I don't know if this makes you feel better but I was married for over 15 years and I was the loneliest person I had ever met! And that was with kids and a good family, and job etc. 
So marriage doesn't cure loneliness if we aren't doing it right. 
BH it's over now. 
The loneliness. (Not the marriage. 
That's way better than I ever thought possible)

On this site, there are great tzaddikim who will be as friendly as humanly possible. They have walked your path and have truly won the great battles that you are dealing with. 
Have you spoken to them? 
I believe they can help you in ways that you can't imagine! They helped me and am sure they can help you too! 
If you need more info on who to reach out to, PM me and I'll send you a list! 

I am Baruch Hashem working with some people on things I can do in my situation right now.

Thank you so much!!

Days clean: 428
Streak: Each Day is a New Day, this one just happens to be the 324th day of having control of myself and respecting others.

    Life has completely changed. The way I view myself, how I view the world, and how I interact with other people. 

    The best parts of breaking free:
- Having a mind that isn't constantly bombarded by fantasies.
- Peace in knowing that I am not a contradiction to myself (i.e. not living 2 half lives)
- Having control of my mind
- Respecting other people (i.e. not objectifying people and of course not objectifying women)
- Self confidence in knowing I am a good person
- Being able to be in the presence or even have a conversation with a woman without fantasizing
- Being able to actually have a connection with another person without holding myself back because I feel like who they see and who I am are actually genuine
- Knowing that I will be able to have a deep and meaningful relationship with my future wife and kids because I wont be trying to hide from them or protect them from myself 
- Being able to feel emotions and learn the skills to deal with them as opposed to numbing them with masturbation
- Having the ability to have healthy discussions on what sex really is with regards to marriage and how Lust kills the deep connection between a husband and wife
- Now when I see a woman I don't see a thing of lust, but I look away and acknowledge the fact that I am a male and am attracted to women, which is a healthy thing and I am in control of how I react to my natural urges.
- The peace of mind of being a clean person
- Being able to acknowledge stress, anxiety, and loneliness 
- Knowledge that porn and masturbation don't solve anything and just add guilt, disappointment, lack of self confidence... to the already overwhelming emotions of life

    Something that happened yesterday was that I saw a woman and my face physically revolted in reaction to something that would have me ridden with lust in the past. This has never happened before. I don't try to justify how society dresses and I know it was a topic of discussion on another thread. Bottom line is that no matter what the reason is, it wont make it any easier for us. We have to adapt and react in the appropriate way and remember most of all, women are people too!!

There are so many things that make breaking free worth it and I don't think I can encapsulate them in a post. Two of the main things I still have to deal with are stress and loneliness and they are being free of lust makes dealing with them a tiny bit easier and a ton less painful. Easier because I am not trying to run from stress and less painful because I know what I am doing now is in preparation of being someone that can have the capacity to not be alone. 

The main things that keep me motivated right now:
- The effort is worth it for my future wife and family due to my integrity as a husband and father to be able to be for them (and to be for myself) and not for lust
- The peace that I have that I didn't have when I would rely on porn and masturbation
- Knowing that porn and masturbation do not help but actually make things worse by building up pushed off emotions and distancing relationships 
- Being an upstanding individual that can interact with women in a healthy way

Ths post is mainly for me to put some things in perspective and also for others to see what its like as they break free. Please provide feedback and maybe add to what Ive posted here.

Keep on Trucking, One Day At A Time!!