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TOPIC: Thought I wouldn't need to ask for help 13512 Views

Re: Thought I wouldn't need to ask for help 11 Dec 2023 18:29 #404816

  • bright
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Amazing! Yes, for the general public that is definitely the case. However, the Avos bepashtus lived bmidas hadin, see sforno vayshlach vehaya hashem li laylokim, Leshem (chelek beis, drush 5 anaf 4, siman 3), R elchonon (Kovetz Hoarahs, dugmoas lagada). Also, by R Akiva "shtok kach ulsa bemachshava lifunai", the meforshim explain its refering to midas hadin, that was the machshava of Hashem to create the world with din.
Nothing good grows in the dark. 

Re: Thought I wouldn't need to ask for help 11 Dec 2023 19:48 #404819

  • vehkam
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צע״ק
vehkam7@gmail.com

guardyoureyes.com/forum/4-On-the-Way-to-90-Days/375452-Work-in-progress

The Battle of the Generation by Hillel S. has been a huge help for me.  Message me to find out how you can receive a free copy.



some of the experiences I write about may make it easier to identify me.  This is ok.  I trust that if anyone discovers my identity they will keep it to themselves.  If you do realize that you  know me, I am completely comfortable and welcome you acknowledging me and my struggle in person.

Re: Thought I wouldn't need to ask for help 11 Dec 2023 21:32 #404823

  • true_self
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Nice vort, maybe a bit too much lomdus for me.... Thanks for sharing

BTW why are you not speaking on vayimean yourself? If you do one day make sure not to share this vort.
My thread: From two identities to True self

If you want to reachout to me to talk please email: wish2banonym@gmail.com
Last Edit: 11 Dec 2023 21:32 by true_self.

Re: Thought I wouldn't need to ask for help 11 Dec 2023 23:55 #404829

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Why shouldnt he?
Nothing good grows in the dark. 
Last Edit: 11 Dec 2023 23:55 by bright.

Re: Thought I wouldn't need to ask for help 12 Dec 2023 02:12 #404837

  • chaimoigen
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Vehkam wrote on 11 Dec 2023 19:48:
צע״ק

ברוך שכוונתי 

Please feel free to reach out anytime at chaim.oigen@gmail.com

Re: Thought I wouldn't need to ask for help 12 Dec 2023 02:16 #404838

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bright wrote on 11 Dec 2023 18:29:
Amazing! Yes, for the general public that is definitely the case. However, the Avos bepashtus lived bmidas hadin, see sforno vayshlach vehaya hashem li laylokim, Leshem (chelek beis, drush 5 anaf 4, siman 3), R elchonon (Kovetz Hoarahs, dugmoas lagada). Also, by R Akiva "shtok kach ulsa bemachshava lifunai", the meforshim explain its refering to midas hadin, that was the machshava of Hashem to create the world with din.

The Sfas Emes says that each year we actually recreate this. We begin with the vision , objective, and ideal intent of living with Din on Rosh Hashana. Then on Yom Kippur we figure out, with the Rachamim of Hashem, how to apply it in an imperfect life in an imperfect world , with Rachmaim. 
Please feel free to reach out anytime at chaim.oigen@gmail.com

Re: Thought I wouldn't need to ask for help 12 Dec 2023 04:13 #404849

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Lichvod my dear friend R' Chaim shlita

Although I am maskim to your iker ha'ara about Yosef Hatzadik I am strongly mifalpel in the tzorech for such chizzuk (at least for myself) for two reasons.

The first reason is that you're nemming un that due to past mistakes we are living in a matziv of madreiga B and not in madreiga A. Personally I can testify that most of my shteiging in limud hatorah and in inyanei ruchniyus were directly caused by my struggles. Because I struggled I learnt with tremendous Hasmada. Because I struggled I worked on my tefilla. Because I struggled I worked on Emuna and Bitachon and Yiras Shamayim. Because I struggled I worked hard on my Avodas Yomim Noraim. Had I not struggled, I would've been swept into the ocean and been just like everyone else. My struggle was my push and drive to always do better in areas of ruchniyus. I am living the perfect plan.

My second ha'ara, is that I want to kler that although you're right that Yosef only hit madreiga b, that's only because Chazal in their wisdom knew that Yosef had the proper tools and koach to overcome the nisayon in it's entirety. Having a minute failure therefore was somewhat of a direct lack in his avoda etc. I think that many of us here, although we might've tried hard, and for many years too - we were totally lacking the proper tools to overcome our nisyonos. The greatest proof is all of us here. Many wonderful yidden struggled for years all the while trying to stop, and suddenly they come to gye... they learn tools... and although it may take months or even years, many guys are able to break free. Obviously what changed is that you now have the proper tools to break free and to deal with desire and challenges. While this may not patur us from onshei shamayim, I think it's still safe to assume that you are living madreiga A itself. Madreiga B means that you failed in a nisayon where you should've done better. It doesn't refer to anyone who ever does an aveira or messed up. You're still living Madreiga A so long that your failures are due to lack of the proper tools in breaking free.
Feel free to say hi! iwannalivereal@gmail.com
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Last Edit: 12 Dec 2023 04:14 by iwannalivereal.

Re: Thought I wouldn't need to ask for help 12 Dec 2023 05:26 #404852

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Reb IWLR, you offer a lot of food for thought. Interesting point you are making, that if we didn't have the tools then we are living Plan A. I don't mean to bust anyone's bubble, but I can talk for myself when I say that there was plenty I could have avoided. There's also a lot that I have brought upon myself, מגרה ביצר הרע  we call it. Personally, I take a lot of chizuk from your first point. I would also add that there is much I have learned on the way up, and I've learned to understand certain things in different ways. And I try to do teshuva.
Keep sharing, keep trucking...and Keep Smiling!!!
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Re: Thought I wouldn't need to ask for help 12 Dec 2023 05:27 #404853

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chaimoigen wrote on 12 Dec 2023 02:12:

Vehkam wrote on 11 Dec 2023 19:48:
צע״ק

ברוך שכוונתי 


Please share your thoughts
Feel free to say hi. My email is 1gimpelovitz@gmail.com

Re: Thought I wouldn't need to ask for help 12 Dec 2023 13:25 #404862

  • vehkam
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chaimoigen wrote on 11 Dec 2023 01:55:
I had a moment of tremendous Chizzuk this Shabbos.
It's an unconventional thought, and I doubt any great Rav or Chizuk-speaker  will present it on a Viayimaen video. But it works for me. 

I was learning the Parsha of Yosef Hatzadik and came across the Gemora that states that he would have given birth to 12 Shevatim had he not stumbled somewhat within the challenge with Eishes Potifar
. תלמוד בבלי מסכת סוטה דף לו/ב  
תניא היה ראוי יוסף לצאת ממנו י"ב שבטים כדרך שיצאו מיעקב אביו שנאמר אלה תולדות יעקב יוסף אלא שיצא שכבת זרעו מבין ציפורני ידיו

Now, obviously, the Gemora needs to be properly understood (and there are many Peshatim), and its axiomatic to state that any shortcoming Chazal are ascribing to Yosef Hatzadik is only a shortcoming on his impossibly great level. Nevertheless, Chazal are clearly saying that there was a higher, greater level that Yosef could have achieved in that moment of Nisayon, that he did not reach.  On some (incredibly high) level, Yosef messed up somewhat, and because of this he lost TEN Shevatim. He never regained them.    
This made me feel great. 

{SPOILER ALERT: I suspect this post may bring down upon me the ire of Captain and Bright. About Vehkam's reaction, I'm not sure.}

Allow me to explain. You see, Yosef is THE Tzadik. The entire Klal Yisroel rides on his Zchus - He is the Tzaddik Yesod Oilam. Everything stands on him.  And yet, here we are learning that the unbelievable Madreiga that we all rely on - is only"Madreiga B" - It is all notwithstanding the fact that he LOST "Madreiga A" when he did not withstand the Nisayon entirely (for what was expected on his exalted level). It would seem (unless I am mistaken) that he never regained "Madreiga A". But "Madreiga B" is still enough for all of Klal Yisroel to stand on and draw wellsprings of Kedusha from until the end of time. And he is still Yosef Hatzadik, nevertheless, Merkava of Middas Yesod. "Madreiga B" was enough to acheive this impossibly great level, regardless of the fact that he lost "Madreiga A". 

This is a huge source of Chizzuk to me.
I have messed up in the past. That is why I am here. I am proud to report that I am BH doing great, and accomplishing great things.
Yet I sometimes feel bad about what I may have lost forever due to bad choices in the past.
Now, (besides remembering that Teshuva is real and effective) I can find great comfort in this thought:
I can still set my sights for the lofty stars - for a "Madreiga B" that will reverberate until the end of time.

שגיאות מי יבין

[p.s. Bright, I Takeh don't know why Yosef's presumed Teshuva Me'Ahava didn't get him back the 10 lost Shevatim. It bothers me too.]


r Chaim as always you are amazing in your writing and conveying beautiful positive messages.  

We definitely need to continue some of this in person….

my thoughts…

Teshuva is not plan b. It was created before the world and before anyone sinned. 
 Our goal is not perfection because that is not attainable. Our job is to get up and fight through every struggle even though we know we may not win every time with absolute perfection.   
Who says that having 12 shevatim is a higher madreiga than what yosef actually accomplished. Perhaps the struggle and overcoming it is the precise reason that he didn’t need 12 shevatim to accomplish his tafkid.  

Even if you understand the Medrash to say that he lost out by not having 12 shevatim it does not have to mean that he was doomed to an eternal lower madreiga.  It just means that he had to go through life with a different mehalech. Not higher or lower.  Just different.

teshuva me’ahava cannot bring back מטתו שלימה.  So the 12 shevatim were off the table. using the failure as a springboard for motivation and growth was able to catapult Yosef hatzadik to places he would not have reached without that struggle.  
vehkam7@gmail.com

guardyoureyes.com/forum/4-On-the-Way-to-90-Days/375452-Work-in-progress

The Battle of the Generation by Hillel S. has been a huge help for me.  Message me to find out how you can receive a free copy.



some of the experiences I write about may make it easier to identify me.  This is ok.  I trust that if anyone discovers my identity they will keep it to themselves.  If you do realize that you  know me, I am completely comfortable and welcome you acknowledging me and my struggle in person.

Re: Thought I wouldn't need to ask for help 12 Dec 2023 14:04 #404863

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I once heard quoted from previous seforim that שבע יפול צדיק וקם doesn't mean that even tough a tzadik falls, he gets back up. On the contrary, Precisely through his constant getting up is what makes him in to a tzadik.
I don't have an inkling of a השגה of who the Avos where. I hope I am quoting correctly, והשם הטוב יכפר. Yosef Hatzadik was zocheh to be the Mercavah of Midos Hayesod precisely due to this. A normal person would have gone all the way and sinned with Eishes Potifar, especially after already experiencing a fall. The yiush sets in and there is the thought of "I failed anyway, I might as well just give in..." That is the greatest level of Mesiras Nefesh to hold one's self back.
I don't know about plan A or plan B, as Vehkam so correctly mentioned, Teshuva was before the world was created. Hashem created this world intentionally with the default being plan B.
This post is getting too long for my current standards of not posting at all. May we all be zoche to the mesiras nefesh of Yosef and to the Ohr of Chanukah.
My email address is: growinghigher613@gmail.com

Re: Thought I wouldn't need to ask for help 12 Dec 2023 14:33 #404864

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פחד יצחק איגרות וכתבים קכח

I believe that is one of the places r Hutner ztl explains שבע יפול צדיק וקם
vehkam7@gmail.com

guardyoureyes.com/forum/4-On-the-Way-to-90-Days/375452-Work-in-progress

The Battle of the Generation by Hillel S. has been a huge help for me.  Message me to find out how you can receive a free copy.



some of the experiences I write about may make it easier to identify me.  This is ok.  I trust that if anyone discovers my identity they will keep it to themselves.  If you do realize that you  know me, I am completely comfortable and welcome you acknowledging me and my struggle in person.

Re: Thought I wouldn't need to ask for help 12 Dec 2023 15:05 #404866

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Vehkam wrote on 12 Dec 2023 14:33:
פחד יצחק איגרות וכתבים קכח

I believe that is one of the places r Hutner ztl explains שבע יפול צדיק וקם

Thanks for the mareh makom. Now I need to find a פחד יצחק...
By the way, the baal hatanyah in likutei mamarim siyum hashas writes that Yosef was zocheh to malchus precisely through this fall, he mentions the first concept that IWLR wrote in his post, about chidush hatorah that comes out after a fall.
My email address is: growinghigher613@gmail.com

Re: Thought I wouldn't need to ask for help 12 Dec 2023 20:28 #404887

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Looking over your words, Reb Vehkam, really nice
Since I joined here I has a kushya. What's the H doing in your name? I think it is there to be meramez that inside every one of us, smack in the middle, in our deepest recesses, there's a piece of G-dliness. That's the H. Hashem. And we bring it out when we Vekam, when we stand up!
 I don't personally suffer from the thought of "What could I have been?". I can't tell you why, it just doesn't bother me. Maybe, like Reb IWLR says, there's so much growth, in different ways, that I only have because of these struggles. But even without that, I understand why some people might be bothered by this thought of imagine how great they could have been, but I just don't think that way. Are you good now? Are you behaving? Are you trying to make Hashem proud? The behaviors that you know you should quit, are you working on it? Then SMILE!!! Let the past be the past. You'll work on the teshuva aspect, and the rest, just forget. 
And, Dear Reb CO, if I may ask a chutzpidig question. Are those feelings, the thought of greatness lost forever, are they thoughts coming from the Yetzer Tov or the ...
Feel free to say hi. My email is 1gimpelovitz@gmail.com

Re: Thought I wouldn't need to ask for help 13 Dec 2023 22:24 #404980

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bright wrote on 11 Dec 2023 23:55:
Why shouldnt he?

It might blow his cover.
My thread: From two identities to True self

If you want to reachout to me to talk please email: wish2banonym@gmail.com
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