willdoit wrote on 06 Feb 2024 18:44:

Once upon a time ago you liked this post
Hashem Help Me wrote on 07 Dec 2023 12:28:

willdoit wrote on 06 Feb 2024 18:44:

What you're doing wrong? You're staring at women! (please forgive me for being so blunt) 

There's a reason that the torah does not allow us to gaze at women.
As the famous Ohr Hachayim (Acharei Mos, 18:2) writes: 
As long as one does not stay away from looking, even if he stays away from thinking about it, he will not be able to control himself and rid himself of the inevitable desire. As we can see from the story of R' Amram, the Rebbe of all Chassidim (Kidushin 81a), that even though he was far from thinking about these things, he was won over by the aspect of "sight"  And we can also see this from the story of Reb Masya Ben Charash (Yalkut Shimoni; Veyechi) who chose to blind himself when he felt that he would be forced to come to bad deeds through the sight of his eyes, even though he was surely far from thinking of these things.

All these ideas are good if someone accidently sees something triggering, but to go stare at women with the intention of lusting... you lost the battle right there... Start by working on guarding your eyes and you'll see the lusting desires will hopefully start to diminish BE"H.  

davidt wrote on 06 Feb 2024 20:54:

Don't apologize!! I need to hear this straight up...

davidt wrote on 06 Feb 2024 20:54:

What is supposed to be the goal of applying this perspective of deobjectifying, does it kill the lusting?

willdoit wrote on 06 Feb 2024 21:18:

Nothing kills lusting - that is, nothing but some good old fashion hard work. 

Deobjectifying is a first step that helps you do the work. 

When you think of the person behind your stare as a wife, mother, sister ect  it helps you refocus your thoughts away from her

NO do not go up and down the street intensely looking at every lady and than patturing yourself quickly by saying wife, mother, sister ect.

The goal of applying this perspective of deobjectifying is to help us live with the truth and move away from bad dimyon and sheker. 

Shlomo Hamelech says in Mishlei (9 17): מַיִם גְּנוּבִים יִמְתָּקוּ וְלֶחֶם סְתָרִים יִנְעָם - "Stolen waters are sweet, and hidden bread is pleasing". Rav Avigdor Miller, ztz“l, explains the reason for the sweetness – because it’s not yours. When a glass of that glistening, sparkling water is handed to you and is honestly yours, suddenly the magic is gone and it’s quite tasteless. Much of the allur is simply because it is forbidden.

When it comes to the Yetzer Hara attacking our minds with inappropriate lusting, we are encouraged by chazal to imagine them as barrels full of excrement and blood! We can--and should--picture them in our minds as getting old, overweight, worn, bad breath, etc. We should even picture them in our minds as rotting corpses if necessary! We can use the very power of "dimyon" that the Yetzer Hara uses to make us "imagine" we could have them, to "imagine" them in the worst ways possible.

redfaced wrote on 06 Feb 2024 21:30:

Part of the reason I constantly keep on looking is; cuz the way I respond to these obsession's or obsession's in general is that I keep on ruminating, with the subconscious belief that if I dwell long enough, ill have control over them or even better, make it go away.. but its a false belief and it aint making things any better 

Thank you willdoit, davidt and redfaced for this substantive discussion today, I found it really helpful!

willdoit wrote on 06 Feb 2024 16:17:

what works for me:
i think to myself ,if id be walking with my wife, and id tell her,
"honey give me a min, i need to gaze at mrs bitcha, she arouses me", 
what would be her response/thought.