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TOPIC: My problem 1042 Views

My problem 11 Aug 2020 12:02 #353597

  • his8sm
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Hello everyone
Does anyone else have the problem I continually have (and possibly many men, frum or otherwise). It rarely leads to acting out or viewing inappropriate material in the full sense (few times a year) but rather the mental lusting is a constant, when I go to the park, when I go to the shops-etc. I can easily do the 90 days thing for acting out but its for this daily, minute by minute struggle, I feel I need support with.

Re: My problem 11 Aug 2020 14:32 #353602

  • Grant400
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Welcome! Thanx for sharing. Absolutely. This is an ongoing battle, nonstop, for many of us including myself. I dont act out because of it as well. It's like many people refer to it here as "eye candy". I recently also became very frustrated because I try to guard my eyes to the best of my abilities but its simply impossible unless you live in a cave or an igloo (with one of our esteemed moderators...). Its everywhere. It's in the supermarket market, on the street, heck, its even in a simple box of cereal (not even the sweet kind    ). What I've been told and try to internalize is, that when we get an initial look (without trying) , that is beyond our ability to control, so there is technically nothing wrong with that. It's the second glance or the fantasizing afterwards which is the issue. 

Now I recently realized that it wasn't working for me and I was still getting frustrated how many times a day my mind registered: "Att: pretty lady alert", Att: "Whoah! quickly Mr. Grant check THAT out". Even though I know that that is beyond my control I still felt annoyed. I realized that is because I sometimes got pleasure even from that first glance even without returning for a second helping. So I inevitably felt like I was fantasizing. But I realized after much contemplation that this is simply not true, it's all included in the rule of that we cant control every sight. Yes, even if in the first accidental glance our mind registers it more than we anticipated or wanted, its nevertheless beyond our control and I don't see how that can be considered wrong. It's only the second serving which we need to stay away from and needs teshuva.

Internalizing this will take away wrongful guilt. The guilt which causes us to obsess which eventually leads to us being more cognizant of every sight which causes more guilt which causes....an endless catch 22. With the proper mindset and a fresh perspective it can change everything. 

                               Grant
I can be reached at: Grant.400@yahoo.com

Re: My problem 11 Aug 2020 14:51 #353603

  • his8sm
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Guilt, depression, impulse issues, anxiety, ADHD, whether over food or other matters, obsessiveness, I think a certain type of person on here, like me, will have all the same issues.

Re: My problem 11 Aug 2020 15:33 #353610

  • Grant400
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his8sm wrote on 11 Aug 2020 14:51:
Guilt, depression, impulse issues, anxiety, ADHD, whether over food or other matters, obsessiveness, I think a certain type of person on here, like me, will have all the same issues.

Just to clarify. You suffer from all these and you believe it to be caused by lusting women in the street?
I can be reached at: Grant.400@yahoo.com

Re: My problem 11 Aug 2020 20:43 #353619

  • yuyu
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Same here. I don't act out with MB, though I DO struggle with looking on inappropriate stuff. 
What does a GUN and LUST have in common? 
Remove the trigger, you remove their power. 

Re: My problem 12 Aug 2020 01:25 #353634

  • Meyer M.
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his8sm wrote on 11 Aug 2020 12:02:
Hello everyone
Does anyone else have the problem I continually have (and possibly many men, frum or otherwise). It rarely leads to acting out or viewing inappropriate material in the full sense (few times a year) but rather the mental lusting is a constant, when I go to the park, when I go to the shops-etc. I can easily do the 90 days thing for acting out but its for this daily, minute by minute struggle, I feel I need support with.

Yes same here. P (used for fantasizing) + M (addiction) and constantly being mentally abused by the y’h a whole day. At least when I learn I’m left alone.
Your best teacher for success is your last mistake

Re: My problem 12 Aug 2020 14:52 #353671

  • willdoit
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his8sm wrote on 11 Aug 2020 12:02:
Hello everyone
Does anyone else have the problem I continually have (and possibly many men, frum or otherwise). It rarely leads to acting out or viewing inappropriate material in the full sense (few times a year) but rather the mental lusting is a constant, when I go to the park, when I go to the shops-etc. I can easily do the 90 days thing for acting out but its for this daily, minute by minute struggle, I feel I need support with.

Same here. I struggle with constantly being in lust mode, when walking in the street or when interacting with women at work I immediately sexualize them. I Am working on myself in terms of MB, however this problem does not seem to get better. Any suggestions please.   

Re: My problem 12 Aug 2020 17:14 #353674

  • Grant400
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So, I'm just thinking out loud. I suffer from this immensely too. Painfully so. What I've read hear many times is that when a person views women as sexual objects then obviously as soon as they see a woman their mind will head in the wrong direction. Just like when we see food we automatically think of in in terms of if I like it, if I would eat it, if its fresh etc. 

So how do we change our mindset? I just started working on a method. Basically when I see an attractive woman (or not attractive just attracted to them) instead of thinking about them as a set of female body parts I think of them as someone's sister, coworker, daughter or aunt. Think of their personality. Think of them in terms of if they are smart, sensitive, annoying and so on. This gives you the ability to value and view them as more then just flesh, but rather a person. 

Even when a woman is obviously dressed in a way that is so glaring supposed to entice and share the view of ... I realized that a woman (most normal, not the trash) dresses that way to look pretty and cute not to look sexy and perverted. She's not trying to expose her body to the world she just wants people to find her attractive in a nonsexual way. Just like when you put on a new suit for Yom tov your objective isn't that people should imagine you without it on...

This mindset has helped me so far although I didn't perfect it yet and I'm still working on proper implementation. 

                                  Grant
I can be reached at: Grant.400@yahoo.com

Re: My problem 12 Aug 2020 17:37 #353675

  • willdoit
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Grant400 wrote on 12 Aug 2020 17:14:
So, I'm just thinking out loud. I suffer from this immensely too. Painfully so. What I've read hear many times is that when a person views women as sexual objects then obviously as soon as they see a woman their mind will head in the wrong direction. Just like when we see food we automatically think of in in terms of if I like it, if I would eat it, if its fresh etc. 

So how do we change our mindset? I just started working on a method. Basically when I see an attractive woman (or not attractive just attracted to them) instead of thinking about them as a set of female body parts I think of them as someone's sister, coworker, daughter or aunt. Think of their personality. Think of them in terms of if they are smart, sensitive, annoying and so on. This gives you the ability to value and view them as more then just flesh, but rather a person. 

Even when a woman is obviously dressed in a way that is so glaring supposed to entice and share the view of ... I realized that a woman (most normal, not the trash) dresses that way to look pretty and cute not to look sexy and perverted. She's not trying to expose her body to the world she just wants people to find her attractive in a nonsexual way. Just like when you put on a new suit for Yom tov your objective isn't that people should imagine you without it on...

This mindset has helped me so far although I didn't perfect it yet and I'm still working on proper implementation. 

                                  Grant

Grant, Thanks for your reply, which is - as usual - well written, to the point. could you please share where this perspective was written on this site so I could expand on this idea.

Tysm. 

Re: My problem 12 Aug 2020 17:51 #353676

  • Jj123
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This stuff probably takes years to rewire, so Its easy to get frustrated/feel like I'm not getting anywhere.
Also, while it's not good to see a woman and immediately think of sexual topics, it's also normal, i think, for men to act differently when speaking to a woman than a man, and perhaps make an effort to present themselves well (even if married). Not sexual thoughts per se, but rather a certain nature if interaction that may be related.
What do y'all think?

Re: My problem 12 Aug 2020 18:06 #353677

  • Grant400
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willdoit wrote:
Grant, Thanks for your reply, which is - as usual - well written, to the point. could you please share where this perspective was written on this site so I could expand on this idea.

Tysm. 

The idea of us seeing women as sexual objects has been mentioned here and there on individual posts not as a topic. The method I wrote is my own.
I can be reached at: Grant.400@yahoo.com

Re: My problem 13 Aug 2020 03:17 #353694

  • DavidT
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When we train ourselves to look at a woman in general as a person, not an object, it changes our perspective of how we think about that person.

This idea can be applied to us in our daily lives. When you see a pretty co-worker or a pretty woman on the street, you have a choice. You can see another OBJECT of desire. A pretty package that is only there to serve your desire and lust. OR you can see a PERSON just like yourself. A person who is trying to pay her bills. A person who is trying to be conscientious at work. A person who may be a mother or a good friend to somebody. So what that she comes in a pretty package! At the end of the day she is a person just like you, struggling to make it thorough her day. When you take note of a pretty person, turn away before the lust takes hold and blinds you from seeing her as a person. Start training yourself, before the wrong thoughts take hold, to think of her as someone's mother or supportive friend. Think of her as a tax payer, or as someone who has to deal with traffic. Viewing her in that light will hopefully make you aware that the person you saw is just that, A PERSON, not an object for your desire.

"If I am not for myself, who will be for me? But if I am only for myself, who am I? If not now, when?"
feel free to reach out @  ahavayirah@gmail.com

Re: My problem 16 Aug 2020 14:50 #353821

  • Grant400
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Ok guys; so I had an epiphany. A revelation. A "eureka " moment.

I was browsing through some old topics in the forum and I saw a simple perspective that resonated with me immensely. It completely changed my way of thinking which effected me immediately in an extremely positive way. I tried to find the post again, but alas, to no avail. It was posted by a user I believe, by the name of MendelZ.

Here's the gist of what he wrote (not a direct quote):
 "You must realize that the lust you feel for every woman is coming from within you, it is not something which naturally emanates from a female body."

This was a beautiful and deep point to me. Until now every woman I saw, I had to metaphorically speaking, place a pair of sunglasses on my face to prevent the rays of magic female seduction powers from blinding me. From miraculously entering me and effecting me through the regular process of a female body's natural light, which automatically  transmits its influences upon its unsuspecting and hapless victims. It was me having to erect a defense system to prevent getting overrun by an enemy on the loose, out for blood. Tiring. Disenchanting. Bloody hard. Like pumping metal nonstop, day in day out. Defcon 1.

But... now I realized that it's all in the reverse. Women don't shoot out feminist bombs or beauty laser beams. It's me. I emit rays of lust towards women. I  don't have to be in a constant defensive mode, I must stop playing offense. As soon as I shut off my brains sexualization of women, through this understanding that it's not an automatic or natural fact (to that level)  or immediate response to the female body being in front of a man, then I can start viewing women as people.

When I speak to a woman now, it's not me speaking to a woman with sexuality pouring off her that I must ignore through sheer willpower, no, it's just a woman. She can be attractive. She can be flirtatious. But to be more is only if I make it so.

Yesterday was the first time that I saw an attractive woman and all I thought was: "She's cute and attractive ". The end. I can go further and get dreamy and graphic but that is something coming from me that I must prevent, not something coming from her that I must fight.

I know I'm not being clear because it's still all new to me and I'm still working out the kinks. Sorry for the ramble. It just gave me such a fresh perspective with such positive results that I felt compelled to share it with my brothers in arms.

                                   Grant
I can be reached at: Grant.400@yahoo.com

Re: My problem 17 Aug 2020 06:14 #353855

  • AsimpleJew
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I have the same issue, thanks his8sm for bringing this up.
I'm BH clean now 117 days from P (MB was never my problem) this is actually round 2 for me my first round I made it till 170 days clean, and now my urge to P is getting a little smaller and the dirty picture in my mind get smaller and smaller, but with lust nothing really changed my eyes are still scanning all the women through the day without my permission, any ideas on how to start working on this women issue?

Re: My problem 17 Aug 2020 11:35 #353864

Hi all,

There was a GYE broadcast I heard recently which dealt with this topic. The title of it was (I think)  'a horse is just a horse.' What he was saying was when we look at objects, there are 2 parts. There's the object. In our case, a woman. She may be beautiful. But a horse may also be beautiful. So is the sea. So is Niagara falls. Then there's b) what I want to do with the object. How I on a subconscious level, think what I would do with that object if it was mine. What I want to do with the item, how I want to have the item. These are the 2 parts.

The key is to take the object part and leave it at that. She's pretty to me. That's a fact. But that's where we leave it. She's pretty. Add Can. No 'I would do this that and the other.' 

Its easier said than done. I also may have got it wrong, so you guys can check it out if you want. I think its similar to what Grant was saying. Wonder what you guys think.

יהי רצון שהדברים לתועלת

Today I will do what others won't, so tomorrow I can do what others can't.
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence then, is not an act, but a habit.
We all make choices in life, but in the end, our choices make us.
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