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TOPIC: what now... 1051 Views

what now... 09 Jul 2020 20:29 #352382

  • jack123
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Over the last few years iv'e visited a few times and managed a couple of runs about a month long. i havent visited in nearly a year, and sadly to say i fell nearly every single day.
So why am i back?
because i just had a realization that scares me. i realised that it doesn't really bother me the fact that im addicted to p..., its become a way of life that i chalila have accepted, im not looking to grow anymore. which also causes other parts of yiddishkeit to fall.
so the Q is WHAT NOW how do i get that pintele back on fire?
please help!!! 

העבר עיני מראות שוא, בדרכיך חיני [תהלים קי"ט]

Re: what now... 09 Jul 2020 21:14 #352383

  • grant400
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Hi and welcome! 

I'd like to make a few points. 

1) The fact that you want to feel regret and "want to want" so to speak, is the biggest proof that your "pintele yid" is still there yearning for holiness and discipline. 

2) So why doesn't that cause you to actually want to stop not just wanting to want?(is that too confusing; )? I would venture to say that its because of the concept we find in Chaz"al called "Nasis lo kiheter" the literal translation being "it becomes to him as if permitted ". This means that when a person sins the same sin 3 times then he completely loses the inclination not to do it again and it isn't even a struggle but rather almost seems permitted to his conscience. 

3) So the way I've had it in my experiences are that after stopping from sheer will power for an even short period of time...as long as during the time passed under regular circumstances I would have sinned a few times- this lessens the concept of "naasis lo kiheter" and reboots the conscience to have a sensitivity towards this particular sin once again. Obviously this doesn't pave a smooth road to recovery and transformation but it will hopefully recreate the fire to fight that dissipates after falling for a long period. 
   
I hope you find this helpful. 
                
                                   Grant
Last Edit: 03 Jan 2021 23:47 by grant400.

Re: what now... 09 Jul 2020 22:30 #352385

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thanx grant, but what if you got no willpower no fight left, how do you reignite?
and to your point that once you start its easier, i do manage afew weeks and than all i need is one fall and im deeper than before....

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Re: what now... 09 Jul 2020 22:30 #352386

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Hi jack
It sounds like this is the big reason for  loosing a bit of interest in yiddishkeit
See chapter 4 of the book 'the battle of the Generation' where rationalisation is discussed. 

Hatzlocho 
The start of 'STARting' is 'star'. Just start and you're a star!!

'the cleaner I stay, the cleaner I stay' - AlexEliezer
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Re: what now... 09 Jul 2020 23:30 #352392

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dont know that book, maybe expound a bit...

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Re: what now... 09 Jul 2020 23:35 #352393

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Also check out Appendix A of that book. It will help you view yourself differently and change your mindset on this struggle, or I should say opportunity. It's all how you look at it.

The link to download it is here: guardyoureyes.com/ebooks/item/the-battle-of-the-generation.
In the place where ba’alei teshuva stand, even pure tzaddikim who never sinned cannot stand. (Rabbi Avohu, Brachos 34b)

Great free resources:
My favorite book for breaking free: The Battle of the Generation 
https://guardyoureyes.com/ebooks/item/the-battle-of-the-generation. Change your attitude and change your life!

Rabbi Shafier's incredible lectures on breaking free: The Fight. Download here: 
https://theshmuz.com/series/the-fight/

If you're only ready to try something small, check out an easier way to do self-talk here:
https://guardyoureyes.com/forum/4-On-the-Way-to-90-Days/378128-Captain—Shtarkemotionals-Secret90Day-Challenge

Re: what now... 10 Jul 2020 07:24 #352405

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Chapter 4 discusses how we subconsciously force ourselves after sinning to make irrational excuses as to how t wasn't so bad, often by convincing ourselves that we don't really believe in God. 
What I'm saying is that perhaps this can help you get to the root of the disbelieving and you can prove to yourself that it's the yetzer hora speaking while you yourself, in your own mind really do believe in God and do want to grow

Hatzlocho 
The start of 'STARting' is 'star'. Just start and you're a star!!

'the cleaner I stay, the cleaner I stay' - AlexEliezer
העבר עיני מראות שוא, בדרכך חינו (תהלים קיט, לז)
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Re: what now... 10 Jul 2020 13:18 #352412

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What has been helping me to stop and wanting to stop: Am I happy now? (while acting out). The obvious answer: no, not at all. When I'm clean, I ask myself the same question: Am I happy now? 
I think the answer is very clear to both sides. When I'm acting out I feel like life sucks. Everything is dark and bleak. When I'm clean, I feel like the happiest person on earth, and have the motivation to do anything.
So are you happy now? Do you want to truly be happy and live life?
אם יהיו חטאיכם כשנים, כשלג ילבינו

Re: what now... 10 Jul 2020 14:17 #352415

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your'e saying good, but, is the knowledge that the other side is greener [or green in this case] enough to motivate you from actual pleasure, its a case of mind vs body really, and for me that isn't at the moment enough to push me.
if i may build on that, the reason why someone galvanizes himself to change is because he gets motivated, which basically is that the mind gets strengthened over the body, which only lasts so long as the mind is stronger. ultimately its the same old guf and neshoma fight, and at the moment the guf is in control. so knowledge of ruchniyus benefit is nit going to help.
let me know what you think.

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Re: what now... 10 Jul 2020 15:03 #352419

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I think you're right, perhaps when you're so into it, the other side may feel like a distant thing. You may not see the real benefit, but I say it's because you're so deep in the mud that everything feels blurry. That's why I suggest you try to stop regardless of reason and WHEN you're clean for some time, perhaps a few days even, you'll be able to judge much better. Perhaps much like someone addicted to cigarettes, while addicted can't see the real benefit of quitting, but once he quit he doesn't want to go back.
If you're an addict I highly recommend listening to Dov's shiurim "12 steps workshop" on the very bottom of the page "audio shiurim" as a starting point.
If you're not, then use all the tools available, filters, webchaver, 90 days, forums, daily chizuk, phone chat, etc.
Just know that everyone's in the same boat and it's perfectly possible to stay sober indefinetely and live a happy life, even if you're an addict.
I would guess you could feel somewhat desperate: How am I going to live without it? Just know that it feels even better to live without it and the more you think you need it, the more you really do. The less you think you need it, the less you actually need it.
אם יהיו חטאיכם כשנים, כשלג ילבינו
Last Edit: 10 Jul 2020 15:08 by Snowflake.

Re: what now... 10 Jul 2020 15:27 #352421

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youre right.
ive had streaks of up to a month before, it feels liberating like youve come up for air from underwater etc. 
maybe i never succeeded because i never really had that belief that i could do it. i remember seeing those long streaks of other people and not being able to imagine how they did it. and until this day in my eyes these guys are the epitome of gevuras hanefesh. something ive yet to prove to myself that i have.
im quitting again and going to give it all i got
wish me luck

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Re: what now... 12 Jul 2020 10:55 #352452

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i would like to hear your opinion on the following,
i feel that my urge to act out is not a lust based inclination, i dont get an overwhelming pull to act out. its more like its a part of my daily routine like eating and i do it by rote, not bcause i got schlepped by some thought or something. 
and therefore changing is like going from 3 meals a day to 2, you automatically sit down for the third without realising it bcause its so entrnched in your being.
if anyone gets me and feels or felt like that id love some feedback!

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Re: what now... 12 Jul 2020 14:45 #352464

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I know exactly what you mean. I've had it in regard to a certain addiction where I'd do it even when I literally had no desire for it but since I knew that I will enjoy it in the end I did it anyway. Sorta like when we eat when we aren't hungry. I believe it comes from being so addicted to something wrong that we completely lose every ounce of sensitivity and literally view (or feel) it as innocently as drinking a glass of water. 
The only way to regain a proper perspective is to stop for a period of time. I know you say you have no willpower whatsoever and seem ok with the addiction but the fact that you are reaching out in a forum must indicate to you that you really do care. You are afraid to stop because you are viewing how you are going to feel in 2 weeks with the way you feel now about stopping for 2 weeks but that isn't true. As soon as you stop as every day goes by with more battles won your perspective will change with renewed sensitivity and a beautiful appreciation for a cleaner lifestyle. Yes it takes willpower which you feel you don't have so say to yourself I will stop for one day, seriously I'm sure you are man enough for one day (sorry to sound ostentatious) and then reevaluate. Hopefully and probably you will feel differently about a long term commitment as time goes by and will view every tomorrow with an outlook fueled by a successful yesterday. 

Re: what now... 12 Jul 2020 18:50 #352474

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well spoken grant, ive stopped for 3 whole huge days and i already feel a change in perspective so thanks for your words.
ironically the internet was the catalyst for my fall, its also being the medicine bcause without GYE i would have no hope

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Re: what now... 12 Jul 2020 19:27 #352475

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Wow! Mazal tov! If you want to feel as inspired by yourself as I am, go back and read your first post and then read the last one. Kol hakavod! 
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