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TOPIC: Introduction 377 Views

Introduction 06 Mar 2019 02:58 #339414

  • Shteigen613
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Hi everyone,
I wish I could be free from my desire. I feel that it over powers me since I was 14. So I guess I'm looking for sympathy. 
For all those philosophic types: why does Hashem put such young people through the nisayon of desire/taavah, if there is no outlet other than masturbating?
what does hashem expect? To keep my eyes clean was always a challenge. Once they became impure, urges took over and masturbation followed. Now I feel that keeping my eyes clean is a tremendous struggle and I wonder if it had to do with all the Schmutz I saw as a teenager in the 90s... first post...

Re: Introduction 06 Mar 2019 03:32 #339416

  • EscapeArtist
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Great question; I've pondered that one a bunch of times. (I started at 6 at least...) I suppose it may have something to do with being a way for our דור, with all our weaknesses, still to be able to create this tremendous נחת רוח every time we abstain, as the opposing forces are insanely strong... stronger than any other דור had it probably. 

Re: Introduction 06 Mar 2019 07:00 #339418

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I believe this question most of us have here. I like to tell my self this is all what makes us who we are. We have no clue what journey god has for us. Its how we deal  and overcome it is what makes us. 

Re: Introduction 06 Mar 2019 09:59 #339420

  • bego
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It is indeed a powerful and compelling question.

I entirely agree that what we saw when we were teenagers has put us at a disadvantage. My parents were blissfully ignorant that I, also in the early 90s, was talking with women in chat rooms and looking at porn. The internet was just starting and most people didn't recognise its risks.

However, we can change the routes of our minds. By working hard we can achieve a new way of looking at the world. its not easy. its like doing well at exams, losing weight or any of the other thousands of things that people have to work hard for (I'm not good at any of those for the record!!!!!).

There is also another point. Many people have taken on the approach of the Baal Shem that all Nisyonos are hand picked for us. With a careful reading of the Rishonim, it appears that they had a different approach. Their approach leaves me with a little for space as I feel that these Nisyonos are generic. They exist because Hashem made the world in this way and the same way that I chose originally to be involved, I can change and choose not to. Its not easy. its really not. We have built up the instant gratification side of us and now we need to tame it. Good luck to you and my Hashem help us all!!  

Re: Introduction 07 Mar 2019 03:50 #339444

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Thank you for those three answers. I guess, in a way, exposure in the 90s to internet porn at a young age is similar to being molested, in which the victim has no choice.  But then again, I was over bar mitzva, and had free will, so maybe I am to blame. Maybe I will be punished! Regardless of punishment, however, because dwelling on punishment will never really bring me towards a healthy acceptance of myself, I just put up my hands and shout, THIS is entirely unfair! So, step one in unfair is being exposed to explicit pornographic material as a 10 year old by a "friend", then more pornography at 13, and quickly falling into pattern of desire, lust, and masterbation, which lasted on and off throughout the next 20 years.
step 2 of unfair: I learned in kollel for many years. I applied for jobs in chinuch, but I always saw female teachers at the interview, or in the building, and my lust meter went beserk. Every time I went for an interview, i felt that the challenge was way to great for my shmiras ainayim, so I didn't take a job, and I went back to kollel, where my exposure to women (even those who were dressed tznius) was limited to neighbors, to whom I rarely talked. 
A few years ago, I really needed money to pay my bills, so I found a job in a yeshivish elementary school... i thought i was protected. Problem - the school employed (beautiful) young, energetic, lively single girls who ran the office and worked in my classroom. Even though everyone called eachother ms. So and so and rabbi ploni ( never, Chas vShalom mentioning first names) I could not stop desiring these young ladies! Whom I saw in the office, and who walked around the building! And here I was, at a yeshivish school, falling more and more into a taavah circle, that I wanted so much to be out of. That is unfair number 2. Argh! Any responses will be appreciated 

Re: Introduction 07 Mar 2019 04:19 #339445

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Shteigen613 wrote on 07 Mar 2019 03:50:
Problem - the school employed (beautiful) young, energetic, lively single girls who ran the office and worked in my classroom.

When I find myself in these situations in Yeshiva where I work, the only way out that helps me is to daven really hard that Hashem should remove my feelings towards them. I don't mean while they're in front of you & the feelings are too strong to really mean it. Later, when you genuinely feel bad & wish it would stop. It literally feels sometimes like a נס how the תאוה just vanishes. Hope this helps! הצלחה!

Re: Introduction 07 Mar 2019 07:37 #339450

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Shteigen613 wrote on 07 Mar 2019 03:50:
Thank you for those three answers. I guess, in a way, exposure in the 90s to internet porn at a young age is similar to being molested, in which the victim has no choice.  But then again, I was over bar mitzva, and had free will, so maybe I am to blame. Maybe I will be punished! Regardless of punishment, however, because dwelling on punishment will never really bring me towards a healthy acceptance of myself, I just put up my hands and shout, THIS is entirely unfair! So, step one in unfair is being exposed to explicit pornographic material as a 10 year old by a "friend", then more pornography at 13, and quickly falling into pattern of desire, lust, and masterbation, which lasted on and off throughout the next 20 years.
step 2 of unfair: I learned in kollel for many years. I applied for jobs in chinuch, but I always saw female teachers at the interview, or in the building, and my lust meter went beserk. Every time I went for an interview, i felt that the challenge was way to great for my shmiras ainayim, so I didn't take a job, and I went back to kollel, where my exposure to women (even those who were dressed tznius) was limited to neighbors, to whom I rarely talked. 
A few years ago, I really needed money to pay my bills, so I found a job in a yeshivish elementary school... i thought i was protected. Problem - the school employed (beautiful) young, energetic, lively single girls who ran the office and worked in my classroom. Even though everyone called eachother ms. So and so and rabbi ploni ( never, Chas vShalom mentioning first names) I could not stop desiring these young ladies! Whom I saw in the office, and who walked around the building! And here I was, at a yeshivish school, falling more and more into a taavah circle, that I wanted so much to be out of. That is unfair number 2. Argh! Any responses will be appreciated 

What does fair even mean?
I'm all about that (substantial) bass, no trouble ....

Re: Introduction 07 Mar 2019 14:41 #339451

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"What does fair mean?"
in a way, the proper description would be, "the lust I feel in my school position is very difficult for me and I don't understand why I am faced with such challenges."
by "fair" i really mean, that i feel as if im a special ed student in 5th grade who has been given the challenge by my English teacher to read all of Charles Dickens novels and write a cross comparitive analysis of the main characters personalities.
teacher! That's not fair! 
similarly, I feel that it's not fair that Hashem planted this "lust" and desirous bug in my brain at a young age, incited it with explicit pornography, and let the games begin. 
then, Hashem comes and says, I want you to be pure and stay away from the lust and pasion. Guard your eyes and fight against the yetzer hara!
well, i feel that Hashem is like the English literature teacher who gives assignments that are way beyond the capability of the student.
That's not fair!

Unless of course we redefine the struggle as... well hashem doesn't expect you to be pure. He wants you to do what you can, like stay clean for 90 days, or look the other way once in a while, or fight your yetzer hara with tefilla when the attractive ladies are not in front of you. Some type of partial victory is all we can hope for, and that is our new redefined all inclusive definition of purity, for our generation, of course!
thanks for the feedback. Much appreciated. 

Re: Introduction 07 Mar 2019 14:57 #339453

  • bego
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"and that is our new redefined all inclusive definition of purity"

I love that line. I don't know who you are (obviously) but your cynicism and wit are much appreciated here! (by me at least)

Re: Introduction 07 Mar 2019 15:22 #339455

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Shteigen613 wrote on 07 Mar 2019 14:41:
"What does fair mean?"
in a way, the proper description would be, "the lust I feel in my school position is very difficult for me and I don't understand why I am faced with such challenges."
by "fair" i really mean, that i feel as if im a special ed student in 5th grade who has been given the challenge by my English teacher to read all of Charles Dickens novels and write a cross comparitive analysis of the main characters personalities.
teacher! That's not fair! 
similarly, I feel that it's not fair that Hashem planted this "lust" and desirous bug in my brain at a young age, incited it with explicit pornography, and let the games begin. 
then, Hashem comes and says, I want you to be pure and stay away from the lust and pasion. Guard your eyes and fight against the yetzer hara!
well, i feel that Hashem is like the English literature teacher who gives assignments that are way beyond the capability of the student.
That's not fair!

Unless of course we redefine the struggle as... well hashem doesn't expect you to be pure. He wants you to do what you can, like stay clean for 90 days, or look the other way once in a while, or fight your yetzer hara with tefilla when the attractive ladies are not in front of you. Some type of partial victory is all we can hope for, and that is our new redefined all inclusive definition of purity, for our generation, of course!
thanks for the feedback. Much appreciated. 

Where does the notion come from that life NEEDS to be fair? Personally, there are many parts of my life that royally suck. I'm not pleased about it. Some I can perhaps change, but mostly, I can't. So, I should turn to God and say that it isn't fair. Fair is when you sign up for something and make a contract with another party. We (at least this guf and neshamah, in this lifetime) never agreed to anything, and truthfully, the choice is yours. You can choose life, as sucky as it may be. It might be difficult.

Just to conclude, I am not preaching. My intimacy part of my life right now is horrible. Usually, I grin and bear it. I was/am an addict, but have been sober for over four years. I am in the process of tanking that all right now. Not because it's not fair, but because I wanna enjoy myself (And don't tell me that it's not fun and it's only eight seconds and I'll feel guilty afterwards, and the yeshua is just around the corner....actually .You can tell me whatever you want, maybe it will even help), and that's my prerogative. Am I choosing death and hell in this world? Yes I am.
I'm all about that (substantial) bass, no trouble ....

Re: Introduction 07 Mar 2019 15:38 #339457

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"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs"

Are we allowed to quote Karl Marx here??!

Fairness in recent years seems to have been reinterpreted by Frum newspapers / magazines. They seem, from what I have read, to argue that fairness (in parenting) means parents giving children different things according to what they "Need." If the child feels hard done by, well, they are told that this is the real definition of fair. 
Is it?
Maybe Shteigen is right? Maybe fair (from a human perspective at least) does mean that we don't give someone something they cant do (as an aside, anybody asked to write an essay on Dickens would be hard pressed to do so - terribly over-rated).
So, although we cannot overcome this unfairness, to say that life doesn't need to be fair, is also not right (in my opinion). If we are meant to emulate Hashem (ma Hu rachum etc.) and we appreciate that fairness is a valid and positive trait, then Hashem surely does so as well.... 
(I acknowledge that some will say that I am using my human logic to dictate to Hashem and not vice-a-versa. I would argue that those who say Hashem is not being fair, are doing exactly the same). 

Re: Introduction 07 Mar 2019 16:46 #339459

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Feel free to fall into dispair!
sometimes I feel like you, and I'm not embarrassed about it either. I feel like having a tantrum and throwing everything on the floor, screaming, and breaking down.
through many years of working through these powerful emotions which engulf me, I have realized that the "anger" and "pornography " and other sexual deviations partially stemmed from the fact that I was 100% enveloped in my emotional state.
through many years of therapy, reading books on self improvement, mindfulness, and trying everything under the sun to break free of the burden of my emptions, I am able to now focus on what needs to get done in order to make myself happy.
I can view my emotions as something outisdeoutside of me.
do i fail. Yes. Am i a jerk sometimes. Yes.Does that bother me. Oh, you better believe me, it does. Just read my post about failing from my desires at yeshiva! I feel I am so far away from any notion of purity!
on the other hand, I made a huge comeback. I realized that at certain times, under certain conditions, I actually can control (to an extent) how i feel. That is due to 1) exercise, 2) therapy once a week where I kvetch about my problems and feel better about them, 3) finding life's enjoyments in everyday interactions 4) calling and meeting old friends from 20- 30 years ago, who are happy to share a laugh. 5) helping out other people, by doing chessed. 6) making my schedule stressful enough to be productive, but not too stressful which leads to anxiety...
All these actions helped me obtain a better emotional equilibrium before i get overwhelmed, and they help me relax (sometimes), even if I'm in the middle of an anger tantrum  (which still happens) and I keep the anger to myself until it subsides.
before you fail, It seems like you already put a lot of effort into your life. Would you like to try one (or all) of my suggestions? And if not, why?
good luck with everything

Re: Introduction 07 Mar 2019 16:50 #339460

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In addition, why is your intimacy horrible now?

Re: Introduction 07 Mar 2019 17:16 #339462

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Shteigen613 wrote on 07 Mar 2019 16:50:
In addition, why is your intimacy horrible now?

She is stressed. Additionally, there are some unknown reasons.
I'm all about that (substantial) bass, no trouble ....

Re: Introduction 07 Mar 2019 22:24 #339467

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GGood luck.
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