Yes I do speak on the phone with others working on recovery. It is very helpful to clarify thoughts and to hear back from others what they think. Truthfully I find that the main benefit is in sticking with a few people as opposed to speaking with the entire world. Each of us really is dealing with a different thing, although the results and a lot is the same, so much is unique. I find that when you speak with the same people for a while, it becomes clearer what you are doing because the other person understands better. -

The KEY (to me) is not letting go completely and isolating/ hiding because of embarrassment. . There is no such thing as too embarassed to say where I am holding whether sober or drunk. You know like- Oyyyyy I was sober for so long and now I broke it,,,, how can I face the oilam... That's not healthy thinking for me. When I act out it is not motivated by anything other than my own interests, and my sobriety efforts are also my own efforts and for me to judge where/how  I feel about it. I do feel a sense of control, and satisfaction when i am able to put it aside and attend to my other obligations. Is that bad? I should not be satisfied with that as a Jew, as an honest husband and considerate person. But as an ADDICT- I feel happy when I am able to do that.

I have periods of time, where I have spent hour after hour, day after day, week after week just mindlessly searching, watching, acting out, ... literally lost in a zombie world. I hate myself. But always believed that if I acted out once that was what happened. And it was like a self fulfilling prophecy. I looked at myself as though I did nothing but act out, and therefore I did nothing but acto out until I was ready to almost jump fron my roof from self loathing.

- Now, I look back at my counts, my cumulative sober days- I have over 300 cumulative sober days if I really count correctly. And a lot more than that (I now realize) in my past. I am NOT just a mindless acting out zombie. True I do act out sometimes, and have periods of time when I have not done to great. But I am not entirely bad... entirely given over. The cumulative count tool has been instrumental in helping me gain that degree of self recognition. And I hope through keeping up on the forum as well as on the phone etc.. that I will grow more. 

I also like this cumulative thing, because I can print it out before Yom Kippur and at least be able to give an accounting of where I am with Hashem. In years past I always just felt like I was in a whirlpool on yom kippur and during the yomim noraim. No recollection of what I did, how I felt, how I tried and where I slipped up... With a record in hand I have a starting point on the conversation with Hashem over those days. I can at least see myself somewhat more of a complete sense. And... my usualy disclaimer- these are just my thoughts, they may not apply to you and they may not apply to me tomorrow after I hear back from others... but these are my thoughts for now. 

OTR wrote on 11 Jul 2016 16:01:

It is your thread after all!  Thanks for sharing

Thanks613 that is true, but i have seen so many people here get hung up on 'absolutes' and I don't think it is helpful for their recovery or others. So i just add in that anything I am writing is just my thoughts and feelings, and as I grow those things sometimes change as well.

 BH I had a great day today. I started an ab workout program for about 8 minutes a day. And took care of a number of things that I needed to. Had little time to act out or waste online. I am happy and don't feel a huge desire to go running after porn right now.

I don't want to say that I have learned how to 'use lust like a gentleman,'  because when I do act out, I am just as in the throes of this evil as I ever was. But being able to say ok- I am going to not do this, just today, and go about my business in life is a strength I never had before.

I attribute it to the convos here in the forum, on the phone and also- a big shocker- to being embarrassed enough into it by people I have communicated with in these bad places. This idea has been in my head for a while, and it's something I would like to get down in print as well to flesh it out and just see it for what it is- my experience.

 Since I was zombying around and basically lurking in chatrooms almost 20 hours out of the day (or more), those healthy lusters as I might call them noticed I was really overboard. Like people who checked into those areas when they got off form work, or on lunch break would always see me there- every minute of the day.. And they were like- "Dude get a life.'

There is nothing more profoundly humiliating than being told to get a life by people who I quiet honestly see as beneath me- and realizing that they are indeed functioning more appropriately than I. But indeed, these people, 'acted out' and then went back to paying their bills, their social lives, families.... At one point I even discussed it with some people there. I identified myself as a sexaholic, and some people agreed they were also, while others said they simply were not. I realized that not everyone in the bar was as drunk as I- and that is a pretty tough thing to swallow.

  I need to "get a life" MY LIFE back. And whether I am sober or acting out, this forum is a place where I will (beh) continue to share my experiences and thoughts in all of this in an attempt to do exactly that. 

www.sexualrecovery.com/articles/how-to-approach-treatment-of-the-sexual-addict/

I found some good things written here that I want to save and look at again

I assume you're familiar with the 12 steps?  I've heard some 12 step guys say that you can't really work on step 1 -admitting you are powerless - You just come to believe it when it finally hits home how out of control and unmanageable your life has become.  Usually this happens when you spend too much time in the bar, passed out under too many tables, or in a chat room. I was recently bingeing on a TV series, and my "out-of control" was counting the hours I spent watching against the hours I was awake and not watching during that week.  It was way too close to even, and whether or not it lead me to lust (it did eventually) should really be irrelevant.  I just felt like sharing that because your post rang some truth to me.  But I am still watching, and so I also know that this realization, for me right now, is not enough to get or keep me sober. 

Yes I am familiar with the steps and use them. I think that equation is a very good one, how many waking hours versus how many hours was I acting out (out of those waking hours) is sometimes a scary question to answer. I think when it gets to be a large amount/ percentage it also hits my self esteem trremendously. 


BH Had a great weekend. I was away in NY and had very little access to computer which always helps my acting out urges and general behavior overall. Over Shabbos I was thinking and realized, that although, I have not experienced a full blown weeks long or days long spate of being totally immersed in acting out as I have in the past, and although I have remained pretty functional in the sense of doing my duties as breadwinner, as husband father and so on...  I noticed last week that I am definetely more tense, apt to lose my temper even if I don't go totally berserk and in general am more of a jerk to be around when I am acting out with any frequency. I can't fool myself- Acting out effects me in that way. I am not the best me. I may be 'me' now. But at half mast. (perhaps if the half of me that's masturbating would take the back seat for a while, I'd be back up to full mast) 

Cumulative Clean Days: 227

BH a good day today. Wasted some time looking into things I shouldn't be, but I stayed clean and didn't spend too much time doing the wrong thing. I am happy with that for today. Although thinking into the future, I am sort of looking toward Rosh Hashana and thinking that it's not too far off. The summer can and has been a bad time for me in years past. The general fact that things are slower, more prtizus contributed to it, but I think there is more to it as well that I need to think about. In any case this shabbos the idea occurred to me that if I can more or less hold steady till Tisha B'av then Elul and the enthusiasm you can pick up in that time is not far off. .... easier said than done..... But I did say it at least. 

I do have to also say that i am really happy I have probably over 300 clean days under my belt. Although my count only shows 227, there was reallly a lot more that i never factored in. Hmm. wondering what it may feel like to see 1000 clean cumulative days. Hopefully one day I will find out... Even if not consecutive, all the clean days I have managed are great and something I treasure.

OTR wrote on 18 Jul 2016 00:05:

Hmmm.. you're all sorts of clever there  

But I like what you were getting at.  I hear people once they get a bit into sobriety talking about how they become more aware of self-centeredness, anger, etc (Look up 'character defects' in a dictionary.  I haven't, but just sayin').  I'm not seeing that myself so much yet, If I am using the steps, I would be at step 1 or 2. But from where I'm standing that seems like a good place to move towards
 

thank613, do you see the steps as a progressive process like as in there is a bottom level and a top level? I kind of got that impression from your post. but I don't think the steps are really intended to be that way. Some are indeed predicated on others, but it's not a matter of madrega like we think in yiddishkeit. 

I'm not exactly sure what u mean about being progressive, but I view them as sort of circular or bi-directional maybe (as in you can go backwards and forwards interchangeably). 

For myself, I just meant that I'm trying to work the steps for the first time, and I'm about at steps 1-2 as I try to understand and gain from each one.  Also working on just staying sober.  I'm at 5 days now, B"H.

bh that's great. Ok I just meant that the steps aren't a system of 'madregos' where one is higher than the next. - 

OK have not been on for a while now. BH things are going ok, had a rough start in the beginning of the week, but then things got very busy in business toward the end of the week and I have been pretty clean since. Also started working out which is a good routine that helps me stay a little discipined and also helps me sleep better. 

I came up with a little tefila that seems to put into words part of what I am feeling. I daven that I should not act out at least, in the way of becoming obsessed and addictive acting out. I may not always be perfect, but the addictive hunger and obsessive actions that flow from my problem are the real evil. I am trying to stay out of being a time waster in general. 

Seeing that when I get busy it enables me to stay clean a lot better, shows me that the work I am doing, have done and will continue with (beh) here, is helping set a baseline for me to be able to function normally. I used to not be able to even do waht i needed to do in life, becasue I was literally attached to my computer acting out. Now, when I am engaged in living, it is a lot easier for me, and I don't feel drawn toward acting out as much. That is a step up for me and makes a huge differnce in my quality of life. even if I acted out or viewed something i should not have or whatever.... So the lows are pretty much the same at this point, as in- when I act out, I feel the same as I ever have (bad) but when I am up, I feel better and more satisfied. - I guess the journey continues... 

Cumulative Clean Days: 241
Been staying busy. Can't say I am not looking at things that are always the best for me, and sometimes wasting some time. But all in all, still staying functional and productive in life. I do feel some guilt for my unfaithfullness with regards to viewing bad things and communicating and talking to people I should not be... Yeah.. that's bad.

But at this point I am also happy that I am not spending day after day after day just whiling away in porn. I am also doing my job, working on my business, taking my kids to camp, learning with them or my chavrusa, exercising and staying functional in other ways. I hope to improve and get this scourge out of my life entirely, it defintiely is a drag on my performance. But I'm not totally submerged now in a way that is entirely insane. I have joined on the SA phone conferecnes a few times too, and found that they are pretty similar to teh GYE conferences which I was happy to see. 

I can not discount where I have come from where I was, and want to grow further.  

I'll keep working at it 

cumulative days 253:

There is definitely a difference that i notice between the effects that various forms of acting out have on me. Porn does undeniably worse things to me as an addict than anything else I have experienced. I can't put my finger on it, but it effects me worse than chat rooms, worse tahn masturbating on my own. All of these things are poison. But the immediate negative results of viewing porn are that I become much more short tempered and harder to calm down. I see it b'chush. I think because the viewing of porn is just so focused and potent. It's not like talking to another human being which is also bad, and even worse in other respects. BUt in a way there is more to communicating with people, than there is with porn. Porn is lonely, dark, and completely utterly entirely lustful. I viewed some porn today and immediately notice the results in me.  

Well put. 

I vote this msg to be copyrighted and distributed. 

Great point,  porn is like lust extract.  Chat rooms and other outlets include some other components of engagement or some expression of humanity,  porn is just the essence of the spiritual poison delivered through the most vulnerable medium,  the eyes. 

Couldn't agree more. 

Thanks for the reminder.