mggsbms wrote:


What is it working on?

OTR wrote on 05 Apr 2016 04:39:

Good to see you digging in and thinking about what set you off, imho.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like your 1st option is what workingguy was talking about, pretty much.  I can't offer any insight into what goes on with you, obviously.  But for me the nervousness really rings true, and also the self sabotage.  I'm curious what others think about the last one you mentioned - the thrill seeker / adrenaline junkie - I don't think sobriety needs to go together with words like: (I went synonym surfing)

boring / uneventful / uninteresting / unexciting / dead / drag / drab / drudging / stupid / tedious / tiresome / lifeless / dull / moth-eaten / humdrum / ho hum / irksome / platitudinous / bromidic

Maybe it's different for everyone, but I wonder if the work we really need to put in for recovery is to bring more life into our sober selves so that it's actually more exciting and more appealing than the old ways

I feel like an idiot "lecturing" to a pro-veteran like yourself, but it's fun to post on the forums 

Workingguy wrote on 05 Apr 2016 13:10:

Yes I identify with this entirely. thanks for posting that. That is pretty much what i meant to say when I wrote "the self destructing addict in me..." - I am not sure if I can point to any one thing as regards what caused me to act out. 

THere are likely a lot of things that went into it. Not working the steps properly, being anxious, just not wanting to work on sobriety/.... RIght now, I think the best thing for me is to hold off for a few days on evaluating that and try to just get one day at a time.

 

The Value of a Day:

So I woke up yesterday and thought ugh.... "day one". What's day one? Is it worth anything at all. I could just go and act out now and start one tomorrow... How much would I lose? It's only one day.... But I started and stayed clean yesterday. It was one day. Prior to that I had about 40+ days. Was the 39th day more enjoyable in terms of sobriety than yesterday? Or today? Not especially. (Actually, toward the end of my 'streak' i felt not too great and was lusting quite a lot).
I don't think that the other days were 'worth more' either.

What kills me about this addiction is not the acting out itself- it's the overall effect it has on my life. The way it removes me from my life, and turns my mind into one single focused obsessed acting out machine. It makes me look at the world, which is by and large normal, and imagine, that everyone is a lust addict like me... but they're not. That is what destroys my self esteem, and hence my life. The mindbarf that begins to color every exchange I have with people, turning situations where I am not even attracted to the person into something I want to percieve as lustful or lust tinged.  

If I could act out without those ramifications, to be honest, I think I would. A day without those thoughts is what's worth living for. So.... what's day one worth? If it's a day of sober living and sober thinking, then it's worth quite a lot.

 

skeptical wrote on 05 Apr 2016 15:24:

Skep: I'm pretty sure you know what working on the steps means...

It's not working on sobriety?

Yes it is. But god keeps me sober.

I think Skep means to say that working the steps is working on sanity, and the emotional things which trigger lust addiction. Sobriety is a by product of really addressing these issues.

What occurred to me is that I am always put off by the immensity of the 4th step. I think I am going to start keeping a log of these things as my 4th step that may help me feel like I can do this step adequately although not completely. 

OTR wrote on 06 Apr 2016 04:13:

I can identify with that.  Maybe I'll do the same : )

The 12th step: Having had a SPIRITUAL AWAKENING AS A RESULT OF THESE STEPS...

The 12 steps are about god; therapy is for emotions. Do emotional defects get addressed? Yes. Is it about emotions? No.

Except that if you choose to believe that your doorknob is your higher power, then it also works. That's very spiritual, indeed.

skeptical wrote on 06 Apr 2016 15:15:

Wow you really are "Skeptical" 

Haha.  Anyone who honestly says

"I came to believe that my doorknob could restore me to sanity, and I decided to turn my will and my life over to the doorknob of my understanding"

is unlikely to recover for other, more obvious reasons...

I was surprised to discover that the chapter explaining how even atheists and agnostics can benefit from the 12 steps basically was about how even they can believe in G-d, despite what they thought  (as I understand the chapter anyway) 

skeptical wrote on 06 Apr 2016 15:15:


That was seriously sharp. I'm not a 12 steps advocate per se, but if works for people, why not let live?

I have no doubt that the 12 Step Program helps some addicts recover.
I also have no doubt that Hashem gifts people, who are ready to do what it takes, the mental clarity to do so. And that is truly a gift from Hashem.

I do have a problem with people in the program saying that their sobriety is completely from G-d, and they have nothing to do with it. 
This world is a world of action. We are here to work on ourselves, and to make this world a better place. As with everything we do, we put in the effort, and Hashem does the rest - but we need to put in the effort.

The 12 Step Program is not magical. You don't just give it all to G-d to deal with. It's hard work. It's not solely a spiritual program -  it is a form of Cognitive Behavioral Therapy that focuses on training the person to surrender his need for control to relax and trust in G-d, as well as to work on character defects. (And for those who don't believe in G-d, they are encouraged to choose an object, or figment of imagination to be their "higher power". I didn't make up the doorknob thing.)