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OnTheRoad is BackonTrack is OTR is....
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TOPIC: OnTheRoad is BackonTrack is OTR is.... 77965 Views

Re: OnTheRoad is BackonTrack is OTR is.... 01 Mar 2016 23:43 #279865

  • Workingguy
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Shteeble wrote on 01 Mar 2016 23:38:
SA will have you call yourself an addict.

My therapist once told me it would be better if I said "I have an addiction", rather than calling MYSELF an addict.

The difference is how you view yourself.

Are you a problematic individual?
Or are you a fine individual who happens to have an addiction.

Very technical?
Maybe.

But it may be helpful for some.

Of course, most guys here will shray chay v'kayom at the very thought of not calling yourself an addict...


 


But many won't say a word even if you don't call yourself an addict. I can call myself an addict and mean something totally different than what everyone else means- they might mean that there is an inherent flaw or they are different and I might mean that this is a behavior that I've acquired and have a hard time shaking.

There's much literature on both sides, and I can tell you several reasons NOT to call yourself an addict- but what I've learned on this site is that you have to decide based on what works for you. If calling yourself that makes you realize that you need to work the steps, do it.

If not calling yourself enables you not to feel broken and then have an optimistic view, then do it. Although you can read between the lines of what a lot of people think on the site, most people don't seem to preach- which is a way that I will follow.

Re: OnTheRoad is BackonTrack is OTR is.... 01 Mar 2016 23:49 #279868

  • cordnoy
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That is standard dbt talk, except....

One should not say, "I am bad," but rather, "I did somethin' bad."
This way, it is easier to change or improve.
I am not convinced, however, that there is a difference regardin' addiction.
Someone who's short doesn't say, "I am short," he is short.

Perhaps, there is a difference nonetheless, but I'm not sure.

Thanks
My email: thenewme613@hotmail.com
My threads:
GYE Handbook | Gibbor's Insights | GYE FAQ - Thanks Skep and DMS123456789 White Book | Big Book (Alcoholics Anonymous)

If one gives up at the first sign of a struggle, he is really not ready to be successful."
"Tryin' and doin' are two different thin's - tryin' is hopin'; doin' is succeedin'.
"The right thin' to do and the hard thin' to do are usually the same."


Disclaimer: I am not a cheerleader; B"H, there are many on the site. I am here to change myself, and with God's help, by some mistake, I might even help change others.

MY POSTS ARE NOT WRITTEN AS A MODERATOR UNLESS EXPLICITLY STATED.

Re: OnTheRoad is BackonTrack is OTR is.... 02 Mar 2016 00:58 #279876

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Yeah that is true shteebes and thanks for commenting.  I hear the nafka minah regarding calling ourselves b'etzem an addict or saying I have a problem.. It's my actions not me.

But calling myself an addict helps me remind myself of the nature of my problem. I suspect that the reason guys would be so strong on that is for the same reason, they want to protect the progress they feel they made... which is understandable but definitely kudos for pointing out.

To me, I am definitely successfull in a lot of ways in real life, I have a great family, great kids, I learn, I have a business that is growing (although periods of stress there of course as well). But there is one big way in which I am not ok. Really not ok. And that big way is a slippery slope to there really being no difference between me and the drug addict on crack cocaine
(Point in case, some of those drug addicts  are CEO's or GASP Politcians who lead what we would consider from the outside highly productive lives... ) except that my addiction is for porn and masturbation and theirs is for an actual substance. 

But I know what you are getting at, we should not view ourselves negatively. And you are right.  I don't view myself negatively anymore. I did for a long time. Paradoxaly (is thatta word?... is thatta a word?... oh nuts.... ) the more I try to 'mechazek' myself like that the more I get into trouble. I found that if I just admit it, wholeheartedly, that I am addicted to this stuff and that means I have an addictive personality - I actually act out less. The efficacy of that may change.. when it does I guess I need to look back into my bag of tricks and work things through again. 

Seeing myself more like  someone born with psoriasis, or other disease helps me and I feel less depressed about myself.  So for me, Step 1 is that I am an addict- It is not my fault, I did not cause myself to become an addict, but I am responsible for trying to use the cures that I know of though. 

Thanks again for listening. In writing this and being on the forum I am really getting so many different ideas on what works for them. And it is totally NOT a contradiction to what works for others. We have the same problem in many ways, but we are all of course differnt. Seeing how different things work for diiffeernt people opens my own belief to re-evaluating how those things may work for me. - Megilah End Here. 

 
  • I've never been one for signatures.. but sometimes people change
  • I'm seeking the life that I find manageable which may not be the life you find manageable. But let's make a deal. I want you to find yours and you want me to find mine even if they are different.

Re: OnTheRoad is BackonTrack is OTR is.... 02 Mar 2016 01:07 #279877

  • Shlomo24
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I am an addict and I call myself that also. There's nothing negative about it. For one, it's a reality and also god made me an addict.
If you're an LGBTQ or LGBTQ-questioning person and looking for someone who can understand you, feel free to reach out. I promise no judgement and to try and listen the best I can. 

Email: iam24zman@gmail.com

Re: OnTheRoad is BackonTrack is OTR is.... 02 Mar 2016 01:19 #279878

  • cordnoy
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Shlomo24 wrote on 02 Mar 2016 01:07:
I am an addict and I call myself that also. There's nothing negative about it. For one, it's a reality and also god made me an addict.

Regardin' myself....
First sentence.....agree wholeheartedly
Second....half and half
Third....nope (again, for me).

B'hatzlachah
My email: thenewme613@hotmail.com
My threads:
GYE Handbook | Gibbor's Insights | GYE FAQ - Thanks Skep and DMS123456789 White Book | Big Book (Alcoholics Anonymous)

If one gives up at the first sign of a struggle, he is really not ready to be successful."
"Tryin' and doin' are two different thin's - tryin' is hopin'; doin' is succeedin'.
"The right thin' to do and the hard thin' to do are usually the same."


Disclaimer: I am not a cheerleader; B"H, there are many on the site. I am here to change myself, and with God's help, by some mistake, I might even help change others.

MY POSTS ARE NOT WRITTEN AS A MODERATOR UNLESS EXPLICITLY STATED.

Re: OnTheRoad is BackonTrack is OTR is.... 02 Mar 2016 01:19 #279879

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cordnoy wrote on 01 Mar 2016 23:49:
That is standard dbt talk, except....

One should not say, "I am bad," but rather, "I did somethin' bad."
This way, it is easier to change or improve.
I am not convinced, however, that there is a difference regardin' addiction.
Someone who's short doesn't say, "I am short," he is short.

Perhaps, there is a difference nonetheless, but I'm not sure.

Thanks

Thanks working guy and Cord, you guys put some of wht i was spending a lot of energy trying to write more succinctly. 

Cord- Saying, "I am an addict"- Does not mean (to me) that I am 'bad,' because I did NOTHING to make myself an addict. I became one because I have an addictive personality, had trouble at a young age with some things that i had no guidance for and began to feed seomthing that is much stronger than me... I fed the addiction (that is my fault to the degree that I did not take steps necessary to heal my need to do so) But I didn't create myself with this weakness or flaw.. 

As we were talkig on the phone today, I realized as well, that at the same time as I can view my propensity toward addiction as not my fault, when I don't act out, that is also not my 'accomplishment.' but the result of taking the right medicine, or in s state of healing the causes of my problem.  - Dont know if i am explaining it well... 
  • I've never been one for signatures.. but sometimes people change
  • I'm seeking the life that I find manageable which may not be the life you find manageable. But let's make a deal. I want you to find yours and you want me to find mine even if they are different.

Re: OnTheRoad is BackonTrack is OTR is.... 02 Mar 2016 01:21 #279880

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Read the post I snuck in before yours.
My email: thenewme613@hotmail.com
My threads:
GYE Handbook | Gibbor's Insights | GYE FAQ - Thanks Skep and DMS123456789 White Book | Big Book (Alcoholics Anonymous)

If one gives up at the first sign of a struggle, he is really not ready to be successful."
"Tryin' and doin' are two different thin's - tryin' is hopin'; doin' is succeedin'.
"The right thin' to do and the hard thin' to do are usually the same."


Disclaimer: I am not a cheerleader; B"H, there are many on the site. I am here to change myself, and with God's help, by some mistake, I might even help change others.

MY POSTS ARE NOT WRITTEN AS A MODERATOR UNLESS EXPLICITLY STATED.

Re: OnTheRoad is BackonTrack is OTR is.... 02 Mar 2016 04:56 #279897

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Yeah i understand. I  am more inclined to think it is really just about semantics mostly.

how individuals talk to themselves. I beelive we are referring to the same dynamic and understand similarly what a person's responsibility is in the world.

Whether you want to call it God made, or the individuals fault... I don;t believe there is a difference. And even more so, if there were, it sure don't look like that matters regarding the solution that works for us so maiy nafka minah... 

BUT- I did davka put in my feeling on the matter and it is very interesting, AND helpful to hear other people's view on their situation. - You know- is it so hard to hear that there are differences in addicts? Or are we all cut of the exact same cloth... There's different types of cancer, but every addict is a carbon copy of the other? Sounds wrong to me. By the same token that there are alchies, and sexaholics, and gamblers, why should all of one type of addiction view or experience it the same way... let alone be able to describe it in the same way. 

And at the end of the day- whatever works= whatever brings you closer to living clean. 
  • I've never been one for signatures.. but sometimes people change
  • I'm seeking the life that I find manageable which may not be the life you find manageable. But let's make a deal. I want you to find yours and you want me to find mine even if they are different.

Re: OnTheRoad is BackonTrack is OTR is.... 02 Mar 2016 06:16 #279906

  • realsimcha
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I always understood that the difference between calling yourself an addict or not is if its possible to "get better". Addiction is for life. Addicts can be "in recovery" but consider themselves sick for life. If this is true [and please let me know if i am off] that could be a reason that its hard for people to say "i am an addict."

Re: OnTheRoad is BackonTrack is OTR is.... 02 Mar 2016 09:56 #279911

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realsimcha wrote on 02 Mar 2016 06:16:
I always understood that the difference between calling yourself an addict or not is if its possible to "get better". Addiction is for life. Addicts can be "in recovery" but consider themselves sick for life. If this is true [and please let me know if i am off] that could be a reason that its hard for people to say "i am an addict."


Yeah, that's one reason, but regardless of whether I was calling myself one or not, I've known most of the time that I'll have to be extra vigilant for the rest of my life, so that's not necessarily it.

For many people it's the stigma of knowing there is something wrong with, and the associated shame. If I'm not an addict, it's not something inherently wrong with me.

And for some, being one helps them feel- hey it's not my fault, I'm no different than a diabetic. You wouldn't get mad at him, would you?

Re: OnTheRoad is BackonTrack is OTR is.... 02 Mar 2016 14:23 #279930

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realsimcha wrote on 02 Mar 2016 06:16:
I always understood that the difference between calling yourself an addict or not is if its possible to "get better". Addiction is for life. Addicts can be "in recovery" but consider themselves sick for life. If this is true [and please let me know if i am off] that could be a reason that its hard for people to say "i am an addict."



That is another point I forgot about. And I think it is totally true. Reading SA you see that the text clearly states that after a while, the fear of acting out DOES lessen. But being an addict does not change and mandates taking the proper 'medicine' for life. -

It's not an easy thought for me to accept to be honest. Of course, on the forum and in recovery we aim to keep our spirits high and motivation/ entusiasm... and that is what we should be doing.

At the same time, as I am coming more to this realization, it is NOT entirely pleasant. (it is somewhat pleasant because I found a way of thinking nad approaching this problem that dogs me which actually WORKS)

But  there is def a little ball and chain aspect to it as well in my mind. Acknowledging that in a healthy way can be helpful also. - I would not choose to be an addict if I could avoid it, I would not choose to work these steps either, but now that both are realities, I am kind of faced with the decision to either face up- or fizz out. 
  • I've never been one for signatures.. but sometimes people change
  • I'm seeking the life that I find manageable which may not be the life you find manageable. But let's make a deal. I want you to find yours and you want me to find mine even if they are different.
Last Edit: 02 Mar 2016 14:25 by OTR.

Re: OnTheRoad is BackonTrack is OTR is.... 02 Mar 2016 15:21 #279942

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I always understood that the difference between calling yourself an addict or not is if its possible to "get better". Addiction is for life. Addicts can be "in recovery" but consider themselves sick for life. If this is true [and please let me know if i am off] that could be a reason that its hard for people to say "i am an addict."







That is another point I forgot about. And I think it is totally true. Reading SA you see that the text clearly states that after a while, the fear of acting out DOES lessen. But being an addict does not change and mandates taking the proper 'medicine' for life. -



It's not an easy thought for me to accept to be honest. Of course, on the forum and in recovery we aim to keep our spirits high and motivation/ entusiasm... and that is what we should be doing.



At the same time, as I am coming more to this realization, it is NOT entirely pleasant. (it is somewhat pleasant because I found a way of thinking nad approaching this problem that dogs me which actually WORKS)



But  there is def a little ball and chain aspect to it as well in my mind. Acknowledging that in a healthy way can be helpful also. - I would not choose to be an addict if I could avoid it, I would not choose to work these steps either, but now that both are realities, I am kind of faced with the decision to either face up- or fizz out. 


I think sometimes your own attitude will change. My attitude at first was no addict no way, and definitely not powerless. Then I did twelve steps live meetings for over a year and was like- yup, addict, powerless. Now I'm like not addict, not powerless- but I only mean that now in the sense that I'm empowered to do something about it (thanks GYE) and that I don't have to act out just bc I see something.

By the practical difference is pretty small, bc while I may have managed to maintain my self esteem at not giving myself a label, I know that within a week or two of watching racy YouTube videos and googling celebrity news I will act out in some way. I just don't do those things anymore. As a result, even when I've been at places with attractive women, Etc I just stay away. So me and the addict both know we have to do this for life, and me and the addict both know it's a very bad idea to get involved in this stuff even a little.

My label is more comfortable for me bc I don't have to think about what I am for the rest of my life, but the truth is that I would love not to act out for the rest of my life because it is so much more GESHMAK this way- no other way to put it.

So pick what's comfortable for you, and keep on going!

Re: OnTheRoad is BackonTrack is OTR is.... 02 Mar 2016 16:30 #279957

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We interrupt this regularly scheduled GYE convo to ask, IF ANYONE KNOWS OF A FEW SERIOUS GUYS IN UK THAT WOULD BE ABLE TO PUT TOGETHER A PHONE CONFERENCE ON UK TIMES. 

Ahem.. please resume... 
  • I've never been one for signatures.. but sometimes people change
  • I'm seeking the life that I find manageable which may not be the life you find manageable. But let's make a deal. I want you to find yours and you want me to find mine even if they are different.

Re: OnTheRoad is BackonTrack is OTR is.... 02 Mar 2016 18:43 #279970

  • Shlomo24
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I think that people don't like negative labels. I didn't think I was an addict at first because I thought I was better than that. But eventually I realized. In my case it was a character defect preventing me from saying that I was an addict. Powerlessness is a hard concept for many and it was hard for me also. I also thought that my addiction was really just SSA, but in actuality I have the same disease as many others, just different M.O.'s.
If you're an LGBTQ or LGBTQ-questioning person and looking for someone who can understand you, feel free to reach out. I promise no judgement and to try and listen the best I can. 

Email: iam24zman@gmail.com

Re: OnTheRoad is BackonTrack is OTR is.... 02 Mar 2016 21:41 #279997

  • realsimcha
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Like so many other things there cant possibly be a right and wrong here. I a sure it depends on the person. On the extent of the "fill in the right title here". Some therapists will diagnose addiction more easily than others. For me, it has been most effective not to go there. I know that I may be diagnosable as an addict. but not taking the title and not rejecting it has worked for now. over the past few years things have gotten more under control and my life in general has become more and more manageable [crazy history, stresses etc ... dont ask]. Now since I am back on GYE i feel comfortable interacting with the chevra whether or not i am an addict and whether or not they [meaning you] are addicts. frankly, i dont care about that. I care that we are sharing this struggle. 
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