hi everyone out there, for those who don't know me my username is lavi and for those who know me by now - same thing-.i am going to introduce my self and at the same time bring up a topic(pidaini convinced me) which i feel is important. i have an addiction to surf the net and view inappropriate sites, even though. i don't go to porn, although i've been tempted. many veteran commentators on the site (they should be blessed) say for my own good i should me more specific. i don't think this is neccesary. so far i'm doing ok. if anyone out there (or in here) would like to debate or convince or discuss this idea with me i will be eternally grateful. i can understand the approach to tell everying, i'm just not convinced that everyone has to go though this. your buddy
lavi

WELCOME!!!

I don't get it, what do you mean be more specific? (Could you be a little bit more specific in what does more specific mean? )That seems to be ok for me. If you mean a little bit more specific in terms of your struggles than i would say yes because searching for inappropriate material is a mask of our real problems. We want to know your real (or: underlying) problems and you should too! That is the heart of recovery, as opposed to stopping to look at bad sites.

Its great to have you!

thanks dms1234,
sure that i also agree that the searching has a connection with our real problems. i understood that the other side wanted to know exactly which material i was looking at. pidaini made me a whole list for examples have a look so you'll understand the question

being more specific makes the whole experience (of realizing our issues and coming to grips with and working on them) more real for us and since the isolation and fantasies play such a major role, making it more real is that much more important

welcome!!

lavi wrote:


First of all there is no sitra achra (other side) on GYE. We're all in the same boat, trying to get better.

For me, I don't want to know exactly what you looked at, but it would be helpful if you shared a little about your struggles, your difficulties and your thoughts. Or as SA puts it 'experience strength and hope'. If you're not sure what I mean by that, stick around the forum and read what others post, you'll get the idea.

If you're saying that it's not necessary for you cos you're already doing fine (as you wrote before) then that's great. B"H. I just don't get why you're here.

If you are struggling with something and want to get better, you'll find it a lot more helpful if you shared about yourself.

There are undertones of aggression in some of your posts and I think that makes it harder, not only to understand other people, but to make any real connection with recovery and what that entails.

One of the important axioms of the recovery program teaches us that "addiction thrives in darkness".
Besides for the advantage of "Recognizing" and "coming to grips" with the nature of your addiction, using terms such as "inappropriate sites", and many of the other roundabout terms and euphemisms which we use here to "hide behind" is not only a matter of refraining from bringing our problem into the "light", but it is ACTIVELY covering it up with darkness and encouraging and strengthening our feeling of "Safety" which we are hiding behind, and thus moving us in the opposite direction and instead of recovery, we cause our addiction to THRIVE! .

thank you everyone out there for your feedback. really nice of you fella to help clarify the inyan.
my points on the matter:1)it seems that kilocholu and shivisi and saying the same thing. there is an advantage speaking out things because it makes it easier to handle ( correct me if i'm wrong). in fact this is even a chazal( my interpreration of it) of the gemara "Da'ago b'lev ish yis"ochena) yuma 75a to this extent.
2) however watson was of the opinion that the benefit of speaking out was about ezem journey struggles, falls victories and not exactly what i was viewing. on this i can't agree more. well said. (more coming from me on this.
3) 9494 has a shtarke question on kilocholu and shivisi and it should be answered (by anyone)
4) i don't think watson was justified by bringing up a side "that i'm already doing fine" because i said the following" so far i'm ok" big difference (no watson?)
5) and for clarification i'm struggling like everyone else, just b'h so far so good. i even got a bracha for unanumun.
5)i have what to say to watson about the way i communicate but for sake of sholom and fairness to everybody i will real try to keep all my posts civil. thank you oilam. stay tuned for chapter 2. LOVE YOU ALL

WOW!!! I got my (user)name mentioned so many times!!!!

The reason I asked you to be more specific (we'll get to that in a moment) was actually for our relationship. I assume, whenever I see someone come to GYE, that he is looking for a chevra, for friends to talk to and who will talk with him.

For that to happen, at least for me to be able to be open to you, I need to know that we have something in common. Do you understand the feelings of hopelessness? Do you know what it means to NEED it? Do you know the feelings guilt? Do you know the feelings of "never again" only to be at it again a few minutes later, and that happening endless times?

That's what I need to see in order for me to feel connected to someone here, and I'm not just gonna believe you because you tell me that you do, I need you to prove it me, talk the language!!

As for what exactly being specific means, it means going into as much detail as possible without being graphic, without triggering people.

The main things are to watch our thoughts before during and after the fall, to see where and how much we are tricking ourselves. It is very hard to do that in my own head (that was just lying to me a few minutes ago) and to write it down, and have other people pinpoint certain points, and share their experience, is what really helps.

Looking forward to getting to know you better!!!

thank- you pidaini for you imput. i like clarity, and that's exactly what you have shown in your post. i feel in order to answer you properly i should start a new intro post, because as you can see this post is talking about a different issue altogether, although watson have brought up what you mentioned
thanks again and stay tuned.

lavi wrote:


I thought that was the case which is why I said:
Dr.Watson wrote:







In fact I think an extremely important point that has been overlooked so far is that this debate is not recovery.

The biggest problem we have is our tendency to over-think things (and sometimes justify them too). Us addicts can think our way right out of sobriety.

Most of us are very intelligent and we want to understand everything before we'll do it. We think it to death. The problem with our thinking is that our best thinking is what got us into this mess in the first place.

Hashem speaks to us through other people. Recovery starts when we are willing to let go of our old ways of thinking and embrace a new one, one that is not immediately obvious but comes about over time if we are willing to listen to other people.

Lavi, I can tell you're a very intelligent guy. Don't let that get in the way of your recovery. I've seen it happen to many people already (myself included). Don't be a martyr to your own ego.

[quote="9494" post=233695]

if the comonly accepted word "porn" is too UNcivilized for you, you can use "pornography"

The heiliger GYE handbook refers to it as "inappropriate material" a number of times.

If some people feel that for their recovery they need to be explicit, that's their choice.
But they should realize that other's feel that for their recovery they need to use a "loshon nekiyah".

Hatzlacha

MT

thank-you watson. i appreciate your post. may i add my humble opinion about what you wrote? (i'm good at that- especially the humble part (lol) i think the debate helps me for RECOVERY because of precisely of what you wrote. hearing from others different ideas. but i think everyone is different in the aspect that you wrote about thinking. in my case i don't see my thinking getting in the way. and you know what, lets see what happens to me, so far so good. and if i fall, then maybe i should consider your approach.
your friend lavi

There you have it, you are open to the idea that your thinking might be getting in your way, you just don't see that that is you're problem (yet).....gevaldig!!!

I think that's only human, not to be able to see exactly what the problem is, but being open to hearing possibilities.

The only way to see that though, is if you're open about your thoughts, what you're thinking before you want to slip, what you're thinking before you want to fall. If not then there's no way anyone can help you sort them out.

As an example, If there is nothing wrong with your thought process, then how did you get into this mess in the first place?

thanks guys for the follow up.

Most of us are very intelligent and we want to understand everything before we'll do it. We think it to death. The problem with our thinking is that our best thinking is what got us into this mess in the first place.

this is a quote by my friend watson.
my friend pidaini stresses the second part. and i couldn't agree more.
but look carefully at the first sentence, on this i replied to watson, that i beg to differ. reason because i don't see anything wrong with thinking through something (lechaim! v'lo lamoves) BUT it doesn't that i can't learn something new, in fact this IS what my best thinking told me to do. GO FIND HELP. And understanding how i fell etc. (everything pidaini is nudging for) IS EXACTLY what i intend to do in a new post ( give me a little time, it's heart wrenching). IS THERE ANYTHING WRONG IN UNDERSTAND THIS, WATSON???
human brain are designed to understand things and the impact of acting on understanding is so much better than JUST DO IT (we know where that comes from).
i repeat, i never said i am going to hold onto me old ways, i just brought up an issue which was mentioned to be. thanks again friends.