Can someone explain what it means to give it up and admit defeat I'm working steps gradually and I'm right now feeling very much like I may fall, I'm holding back but its very tough, so I figure now is a good a time as any to learn another tool
thx

I would have left this to more knowledable people to answer, but when I saw you call it a tool I felt compelled to say something. it's not a tool, it's a way of thinking.

I find that the more I fight my urges the more they fight back, and while I might be able to hold my own for a while, it's almost inevitable that I'll slip before the urge does. the urges aren't going anywhere so there's no point fighting them. much better to just accept the fact that they are there and give it up to Hashem.

see, I'm powerless over lust, meaning that in a fight, I'm likely to lose most of the time. but, i believe in Hashem and He is able to keep me sober even when I can't. it's an open miracle that Hashem performs for anyone who is willing to let Him and asks sincerely.

I still hope the knowledable people answer your question more fully, but I hope this helps for the meantime.

Ah, the night is callin'
And it whispers to me softly, "Come and play"
I, I am fallin'
And if I let myself go I'm the only one to blame

I'm safe up high (with God), nothing can touch me
But why do I feel this party's over (I can't win)?
No pain inside, you're like perfection (that's what he tells me)
But how do I feel this good sober? [There's no feelin' in da world like da feelin' of bein' sober.]

Are you asking why you'd ever do such a thing - what the logic is in admitting defeat - what good it will do and how it could possibly help?

Or are you asking how to do it, noticing that many sober people in many 12 step groups are saying works?

If it is the first, I'd avoid getting into it here for I (and others) have posted a lot about it in the past. But if it the second, I would just say do not get indoctrinated, brainwashed, or coerced by 12-step-loving peers into your 'admitting defeat' or 'surrendering'. I never try to convince people they are powerless/addicts or that they 'need' to work the steps. Rather, I just try to help them see themselves more clearly by listening and sharing my own story with them. Then they either see themselves in my own story and self-honesty - or they vilify me. Nu. Life is not a fashion show, they tell us.

So rather than follow like a sheep, I suggest you keep trying your heart out to beat this thing and control lust with every tool at your disposal - until your relationships, your religion, and your inner self, all rot away under the weight of your own failure and rationalization in it....or until you succeed. If you fail, then when the smell of defeat reaches your own nose (probably long after some others in your life were overcome by it), the decision will be very easy to make. And there will be many friendly and caring people ready and willing to accept you just as you are (unlike you may be right now) and who will happily and freely share what works for them, with you...if you have really reached the end of your rope.

And if you are not really an addict, then you will succeed at beating or controlling it!

So I figure you have nothing to lose...but the people around you do, along the way they suffer the worst.

None of that was tongue-in-cheek. I am serious.

Hatzlocha, chaver!!

Ok not sure I understood what ur saying or how that answered the question, I may or may not be an addict I don't know, but regardless I know the big book says to do what works for u, and so far this is working for me the best out of all the methods I have tried, so now that its getting tougher the fight I would like to extend my knowledge of how to defend myself against the urges and I know that giving it up to god works for many many people, so if I can understand the method and apply it maybe it'll work for me to, I definitely won't follow blindly don't worry but it seems like it may be of great help to me.
thx

From today's news:

Kettering, OH – Mr. Clean Artist Richard Black Of Ohio Dies At 92
Posted: 01 Apr 2014 04:35 PM PDT
Kettering, OH – The Ohio artist who created the Mr. Clean character that became a long-lasting advertising hit has died at age 92. Services are planned Saturday for Harry Richard Black. The Dayton Daily News reports Black died Sunday at his home after a brief illness.

Lol don't worry he lives on day#25 b"h! I bet he would have never guess where his drawing is today!

mr.clean wrote:


You asked about surrender and how it works. I wrote that surrender is what works for people who need to surrender. Once a man or woman needs to surrender, it is appropriate to discuss what that means. Before then, it tends to sound pretty profound - and goofy.

ok ihear but what makes u think I don't need to surrender?

i think bichlal kavanas divarav hakedoshim was that you have to FEEL
the need not just 'maybe yeah maybe no' and 'why not pick up a new trick'

i think bichlal kavanas divarav hakedoshim was that you have to FEEL/realize
the need not just 'maybe yeah maybe no' and 'why not pick up a new trick'

Yeah. If I were not a failure at controlling this but still felt I could continue enjoying sweet porn and sex adventures at some cost that I could probably/hopefully manage, then I would certainly not be sober. And it should go without saying that I wouldn't bother with recovery work (which mainly comes after being sober).

I relate to that. The engine that drives the steps as far as I can tell, is only one thing: necessity. If the 1st step is not really there, but just an ideal one 'agrees' with...I do not see the necessity at all, so It is just not there. The guy who works the steps cuz he likes them but does not really need them is like a beautiful car w/o an engine. Though it looks exactly the same on the outside, there's no engine driving the car.

And I do not believe there is any way to make a guy give up besides more trials of controlled experimentation. Seriously. If the guy hears this and panics or cries - then he may be ready to start. But of not, then why fight reality? He does not need it yet!

And I think that's fine!

There are some good stuff on this thread for anyone workin' step # 1, or perhaps thinkin' about beginnin' the steps (and the posts are short - even Dov's!).

...miracles are happening everywhere!