Cordnoy, ideleted my previous words. I was trying to bring resentment i was feeling to light but in the end,i felt my own words were tip harsh and critical so i apologize as well. I see that you're only trying to help.

Based on your final comments, lets make a deal. I wish someone would ask me and you wish you prayed more. I think you can pray if you'd choose to, and you think i could just ask someone. So here's my deal: If you tell me that you spent 15 minutes more than you normally do in personal prayer thanking Hashem for everything good in your life, i will go out on a limb and ask someone to be my sponsor. Or, i can go first. You decide.

G. Ibbo R120, your comments have been noted. Thank you. :-)

Thats always what us addicts want. Thing to come to us. Girls, pleasure, God, SA. Really we need to take the initiative and THEN Hashem will help us. We gotta do our hishtadlus.

Metal King wrote:


Thanks

Can I bargain down?

It's amazing. We've all heard many times how the YH challenges us in the main area of tikkun. Whatever we need most to do, i.e- guard our eyes. Yet nobody notices the war the YH fights to get us not to talk and really connect with the Ribono Shel Olam.

Last time i fell was BECAUSE i stopped talking to Hashem for an hour and i wasn't taking the actions necessary to keep myself talking to Him.

Id be willing to state that it seems easier for me to guard my eyes for a day and stay clean than talk to Hashem for an hour. (really, i can't do anything without talking to Him)

If personal prayer is not so important, than why is everyone so reluctant to do it? Why is everyone's addiction / YH saying, "you don't need to talk to Hashem, other things are more important, just go to more meetings, regular davening is plenty, etc, etc"

But again, don't take my word for it. Go ask anyone you consider to be in recovery and ask them how much time they spend praying to G-d outside the context of the siddur. If your goal is to get to recovery, why wouldn't you emulate those in recovery?

My musar/chizuk aside, no bargain down, do we have a deal?

My suspicion, and from Dov's assertions is the answer to your question is not at all like you think.

cordnoy wrote:


Perhaps, you misunderstand what i mean when i say personal prayer. In "Recovery Continues", when they talk about daily admitting powerlessness and surrendering to G-d, that's personal prayer! When they recognize a negative emotion or attitude and say , G-d, i can't handle this emotion, i surrender it to You, please take it away." That's personal prayer! When you are about to leave your house and say, Hashem, help me guard my eyes." That's personal prayer. I mean any actual speaking to G-d, not including the words of the siddur.

If you were to ask Dov or anyone else in recovery how often they speak to G-d in their own words each day, i think YOU will be surprised at the answer. And especially how often they're thanking Him for everything.

And just to reiterate, I am not against prayin'; if that's what works for you, then go for it! I don't see it yet as the tool for my recovery. I have been to many SA meetin's and it is true, there is the serenity prayer, and many of the steps are about bringin' God into one's life and I'm kool with that - reason bein' is because that is part of the recovery process...simply prayin' to God and cryin' bitter tears and askin' Him to remove this horrible addiction willnot get it done (in many cases, and if one is an addict) unless he is actively workin' the recovery process...whatever that may be.

In short, one who has a tayva, like any desire, he can daven and pray for it to be removed, and that might be regarded as his hishtadlus; for one who is addicted, however, he needs to work the recovery process, and step 7 is certainly part of it then.

I am nowhere near that yet.

Thanks for bein' on top of me.

b'hatzlachah

cordnoy wrote:


Woah! Woah! Where have i ever given you a bitter prayer with tears?!?
Saying to G-d, "I am powerless to this addiction. I surrender the right to lust. i send it away to You. Please take it away from me." is a heartfelt, honest, humble request to your Higher Power for help.

I've mostly been pushing you to say Thank You to G-d for the basics, your heat, your lungs, your health, your families health, your income, etc.

But with G-d's help, I'm bli neder done trying to convince you. Speaking of the Serenity prayer:

Hashem, Ribono Shel Olam, please grant me the Serenity to accept i can't change Cordnoy's mind about praying NOW instead of later; the courage to open my mouth to pray to You to open Cordnoy's heart and mind about praying and for me to ask someone to be my sponsor; and the wisdom to recognize when arguing with Cordnoy has become a fruitless endeavor. Amen :-)

Hatzlacha back at you, my friend.

not 'fruitless.'

You are penetratin' this thick skull and heart.

keep at it my friend.

oh....Amen on the tefillah!

Metal King wrote:


I think you should be encouraging more than imposing, the origins of the people on GYE vary very much, I don't know if you are Chasidish Litvish or whatever, however those who have not been educated the way you see it, find it difficult so only encouragement will do the job!

BTW even in Chasidish circles the road you chose [Breslov/Arush] is very debated, not condeming just commenting.

belmont4175 wrote:


Ah, there's Emunah principles of Hashem's hashgacha pratis right there! Yesterday, i accused Cordnoy of being too harsh and critucal of me and now i get accused of the same thibg to Cordnoy by you! Thank you for being the messenger of Hashem to teach me to watch my words from becoming critical and Thank You Hashem for that boost in Emunah, the reminder You really do control EVERYTHING.

my apologies for the fruitless endeavor remark. I just meant, as Cordnoy knows, that we keep just knocking heads about this prayer thing and maybe a better way to have said it would have been, "we could agree to disagree."

Regarding Breslev, Rebbe Nachman always told everyone to follow ShulchN Aruch and learn like crazy. (finish shas every year.) No one should have a problem with that. Regarding Rav Arush and his books, I've found lots of people who disagree with them but i have yet to find someone who says they followed his advice to the letter and didn't see big miracles.
On Amazon, all his books get 5 stars except for the marriage ones where you see people who read the book but disagreed and were too stubborn to implement his words.

So I'm not sure about all this debate you're referring to.

Finally, i went to regular litvish yeshiva but in a downward spiral, was pointed to The Garden of Peace and The Garden of Emuna and have seen nothing shirt of miracles when I've implemented his words. So my education is all my own reading and experience.

Metal King wrote:


I did reach out for Arush/Brody and have much to thank them for my Emunah, they gave me a total new look and meaning in life, in regards to "Hisbodedus" that they stress so much to do it for a full hour every day, many people testify that they have had negative effects from that, with me personally I spoke to 2 Rebbes (one of them who knows R' Brody closely) regarding this and they both advised me not to pursue this avenue.

By Chasidim they used to say מען דארף מאכ'ן התבודדות צווישן מענטשן און גלגל שלג אונטר'ן דאכנע! Tanslation: you shouls make Hisbodedut bettwen people and Gilgul Sheleg (roll in snow) under your quilts.

A person can talk to Hashem wherever he is and work on his midos even when in public.

Negative effects? Very vague. I did agree with Cordnoy before about not crying bitter tears. Rabbi arush himself in the books warns about complaining and crying in your prayers.

What oh what is so bad about an hour of prayer? Rabbi arush says break it up into 3 parts.
Part 1) thanking Hashem for everything your life that's good. That's basically what every bracha we say is for! He just says to do it with every detail of your life. Try even this; next time you're going to eat an apple for example, say "Hashem, thank You for this delicious apple, then say your borei pri ha'eitz.
Part 2) noting our transgressions from the previous day, admitting them, asking forgiveness, and resolving to do better - didn't a tanna in avos tell his students to do teshuva every day in case it's your last?Breslev teaches that there is no double jeopardy. Whatever you judge yourself for, beit din shel maaleh can't judge you for either.
Part 3) requesting help. Here Rabbi Arush makes a stipulation: any spiritual request, anything you request help that is about doing Hashem's will or getting closer to Him will bee answered.His will and getting close to Him is always best and He always does the best so you'll be answered. But, Material requests aren't always answered. Perhaps it's not for the best you get a raise or the new job you wanted.

What is so terrible about that that Rebbeim would advise against it? And one who knows R' Brody at that? Have you ever met either one? Meeting them felt like meeting real tzaddikim. I feel bad for whomever advised you against listening to them.

One other question, if you saw so much good from everything they taught you, why question the hitbodedut? Why not just let their track record with you speak for itself and try it yourself?

I have nothing against their way, the only thing I was discouraged from was going to the field or anywhere secluded for hisbodedus for 1 hour.

(On a side note: back then I tried reaching out to R' Lazer I didn't get through much, I asked him to engage in קירוב קרובים, he is somewhat more busy with lost ones and noahides, I still regard him a very choshuve person that Rebbe who knows him had only praise to say about him).

So yesterday, based on the encouragement of Cordnoy, DMS1234 & G. Ibbo R120 I asked someone to be my sponsor and he said, NO f-ing way in he##, get outta my face, Loser!

Kidding! You should see your face right now.
Actually, he said No, I'm not working the program well right now and my sponsor advised me not to take on sponsees during this time.

So BH, I'm going to try and have Emuna that he wasn't the best sponsor for me and Hashem wants me to keep looking. I will pray for help from Him to help me find the best sponsor for me AND continue asking people who seem right.