Mefatfait Beyitzro wrote on 26 Feb 2012 21:34:

this is a PM I sent someone

hi , here.
Thanx for sharing your full story, even though I'm drastically different than you, as a just-turned twenty-year-old Hasiddic FFB. And obviously my story and mo <=method of operation> is drastically different than yours, I found that I heard myself in your story, all that rationalizing and doing stuff while knowing fully well how ridiculous we're being, it's all an addiction, no matter what the drug. for you the drug was prostitutes and for me masturbation and pornography, but we're both suffering from the same illness, just as i now understand that i'm suffering from the same illness as the alchoholic, so it was very enlightening to hear you speak and i would like to thank you.

Hey Edgeman

Great turn around!    and not only for yourself - but making shalom bayis with your wife.  Awesome!  Nothing better than that, according to my Rav. 
Great job of working successfully to change in the real-life tough situations. So far for me - I think the greatest sense of accomplishment is acting differently when  the 'tests'; the nisyonos, the triggers - jump out at you.  KUTGW - and inspiring the rest of us to go viter.

Mefatfait - Seems pretty funny to me that you see something 'cool' in my posts.  More like sad, crazy, desperate, and thank G-d IY"H a turnaround.  But thanks - I'll take a 'cool' now and then.  Actually - the part about Yosef hatzaddik - now you're talking - IY"H by all of us!!  -Let's run away from our own bas Potifars! 

Bottom line - I think TehillimZugger has it right - the exact acting out doesn't matter as much as the fact that - I AM A LUST ADDICT and need to view my life and need for recovery in that framework.  That seems to be the only starting pointing that could get us out of this terrible habit/ secret life - and maybe, just maybe  it will be a stepping stone to getting to closer to Hashem in a way we didn't plan on.

A great day to all!

Have2changeNOW!  emphasis on NOW

Well maybe we shouldn't run away from our own "bas potifar" but rather from Potifar's wife.  (But thanks for the morning chuckle).

Me3 wrote on 27 Feb 2012 16:01:

He means that according to Chazal Yosef actually Married Bas Potifar, didn't run away, ran away from her mom, which makes for some pretty good mother-in-law jokes 

Ok - so I guess I've done a great job of exposing my BT background - so much for my fancy Hebrew references.  Eishus, bas, nu?

Anyway  the Yosef HaTzadik goal/vision is a nice one for us, huh?

Glad to make you chuckle!  Laughing at some posts has been a frequent and welcome unexpected benefit of GYE for me.

KOP!

Have2changeNOW

Hey now that we're on Potifar's wife, I mean, well not on her, but you know what I mean... The only thing that held Yosef back from doing the deed was a vision of Yankov Avini.  we all know that Yaankov lived with incredible purity, so it's no wonder that Yosef saw the vision of his father before acting out.  However, I can't speak for myself or anyone else, but what if the image of a person's father actually ENCOURAGES him to traverse into the forbidden?  what I mean is that, due to our many sins, our holy tradition of purity has been watered down throughout the generations, and it's possible that a person's father does not represent moral purity, and so, in fact, where Yosef was saved, many people today would stumble!  In fact, perhaps the image of the person's father would say "Go for it son, and don't forget to lock the door!" 

maybe this is why it's so much more miraculous when a person today withholds himself from falling further... precisely because we don't have the same resources Yosef had...

Holy Chevra - wanted to post to you about an intense experience I had yesterday. 

I 'gave over' my Qualifying Share to an SA format call.  For about a half hour – I verbally gave the in-depth story of my personal and acting out history, starting with my upbringing, and how I get into m***,  p***, z***, my trying to stop, etc.  A few things became clear to me from the preparation in the last few days.  These are my own opinions/experience, of course, but may ring true for others.  At least it’s helpful for me to write them out to myself:

1. I remembered a lot of details and this showed me more ridiculous uncontrollable behavior – limud – I was in denial for years!
2. There was definitely a worsening over time of my acting out – limud –  my addiction kept getting worse!
3. I was successful only in some small measures via the teshuva process – limud – teshuva  does not work to ‘cure’ my addiction!
4. I couldn’t really ‘blame’ my acting out on my parents, upbringing, or wife, it just took on a life of its own. Maybe I could find a hint here or there, but – limud – I’m ADDICTED now and need to deal with my addiction as it is today.

A few recommendations, especially for the Newbies out there, which I consider myself one, since I’m just throwing myself into Recovery within the last 30 + days or so (after YEARS of failing to change).    This is again my opinion only.  These suggestions are based on feedback by some of those who listened to my Share:

1. SHARE YOUR ADDICTION with a GROUP.  Someone said I was courageous for sharing, by publicly saying all those embarrassing behaviors, not hiding. To this I say, I’m not courageous – but desperate, and I  believe that this SHARING is a critical STEP in Recovery.  If you are really an addict – you need to tell your real story to other real addicts.  I can’t support this claim – but I think it’s really the emmes of this addicted state of being. Bottom line – you don’t need to be courageous to share  - you need to really want to recover!  Small bonus – it feels good to get the dirty secrets and lies off your chest to others who will understand.  So share MORE in this forum – and/or find a live SA phone call or group.

2. ITS YOUR ADDICTION that matters, more than your exact acting out behavior.  People with different acting out forms  felt that hearing my powerlessness over my addiction, helped them to recognize their own powerlessness over their own addiction.  That is the iccur, that I CANNOT CONTROL my behavior.  Sure it comforting to hear someone has your problem, or is ‘worse’ than you, but we share that common trait of helplessness over lust, and it helps to hear ‘yourself’ in someone else’s struggle.

3. SHARING MIGHT REALLY HELP OTHERS, NOT JUST YOU.  One person who has the same acting out problems with zonahs as me, wanted to get info about STDs that worked for me.  He was shy so far, but I think this ‘customized’ chizuk really helped him to go forward, IY”H.  So I’m glad to help a fellow troubled yid with his problem that could lead to other problems of health, arrest, etc.

I would sum all this up by saying:    I'm not ready to get into the WHY of my addiction, I just NEED to  really believe I’m addicted (helpless) and then TAKE action for Recovery, and that SHARING is really helpful action both for me when I share and to HELP some FELLOW ADDICTS. 

Obviously there is a huge overlap here with the 12 STEPS (I mean this was the FIRST STEP to give the BIG SHARE), and there are certainly many other important Recovery Actions.  But I just wanted to emphasize this special personal experience that’s about my Recovery – not my stupid addiction lows.

Hope it’s a bit helpful for some of you, and thanks for listening as I try to gain and share some insights for my own RECOVERY.

Baruch Hashem – One Day at Time
Keep on Monstuh Trucking
And be matzliach!

Have2changeNOW

Wow, that was the loftiest thing I've read in, well, a while.
I'm going to make a shirt that says "H2CN took a day trip to Gan Eden and all I got was this lousy T-shirt"

Have2changeNOW wrote on 27 Feb 2012 21:34:



-Lewis Carroll- Alice In Wonderland

On a serious note. Your posts are great, I think we have another Dov in the making. [boy am i lucky he isn't around to hear me]

also what happened to your outgribing name GNFLSCUCBIN2NOW?

H2,
It is so good to hear your complete commitment.  You get it.  Admitting powerlesness, surrendering lust, turning the battle over to Hashem.  You're humble enough to know your own way didn't work and won't work.

Too many guys get on here and start talking about filters and clean streaks.  Not you.  You're about real recovery.  Real change.  Real growth.  You're willing to do whatever it takes.  Fortunately, all it takes is following the system.

Wishing you continued, daily hatzlacha,
Alex

___________________________
Edge,
In Yosef Hatzadik's vision, Yaakov Avinu appeared to him and showed him the choshen (breastplate with 12 precious stones) which would be worn by the Kohen Gadol.  He told Yosef that if he did the aveira he was considering, then his name would not appear along his brothers' on the choshen.

We must each realize that our actions have far-reaching effects, on those around us, on Klal Yisroel, and on our collective future.  That's an image and a motivation we can all tap into.

Hey all -  below is a MESSAGE FROM DOV in response to my recent post about making the BIG SHARE.  Dov and I have been communicating through PM a bit, since he has been off this FORUM for a break.  He just asked me to post his message to everyone, so here goes: 

FROM DOV:
Hey, I have not been on the forum for a while, and I will not be reading the responses to this post, either. I really need the vacation. B"H it's going very well, was a very good decision, and a lot is being revealed to me as a result of my difficult abstinence from this forum, so far. It's a real gift.

But someone told me about this man's post. And as today is a special day for me personally, and Have2changeNOW has really done something important here - something real - perhaps some comments are in order:

Not to be cynical, but I doubt that anyone who hasn't actually done what you did the other day can possibly understand what you are talking about here, and they are unlikely to even believe you. A pity, cuz the difference between those who learn to 'understand' the steps deeply - and those who humbly and openly 'work' them - is immense. And that is an understatement. Cuz learning them is actually nothing. Doing them is actually everything. Wanting to do them is also nothing, really.

Furthermore, you sound like you see the difference now, but the long range effect of your opening up your particulars to others will be felt more and more over time. If you allow the action you have taken to set a precedent for you, then your recovery is a sure thing, I believe, as long as you want to keep recovering. (As Bill wrote in AA ch5. "Rarely have we seen a person fail, who has thoroughly followed our path." And it is well-known that he wanted to write "Never," but didn't because he knew alcoholics well enough to know that many would just get all in his face about it and some would set out to prove him wrong by failing! Funny, but true.)

So just stay the course, and whatever you get will be so beyond what you imagine is possible now. Keep opening up as the days go by about today, and you will be guaranteed an easy way into the rest of the steps. They are an easy way into the Good Life, as we addicts have learned.

But y'yasher kochacho to you for trying to make a pitch for the only medicine that really works - not thinking about the truth, but admitting the simple truth itself. Well-intentioned as they may be, many are still 'out there' because admitting the truth about themselves in a real and detailed way to a person who truly can understand them is precisely what they are not willing or ready to do....today. And it's funny, for there will still always be more to admit and open up about, as more of the truth about us is revealed to us by Hashem, as I am finding. It never gets boring.

And all the excuses to keep hide and isolating will always seem so right to us all. May Hashem help all of us do what you are talking about right here, right here and now.

Thanks for the recent response/support from some of the GYE gadols.  I believe that, similar to being jealous of someone's Torah learning is ok, so too it's ok to be jealous of someone's recovery and level of change.  I never understood the meaning of support group - and I feel like I do now.  I for sure would not have made these first steps of recent Recovery progress on my own - so thanks SO MUCH!

Alex - yasher koach - your words help keep me focused and believing even more I am on the right track, and that this is my road to salvation - IY"H.

TZ - your literary breadth is impressive.  the signature below is definitely for you.

Edgeman - are you a poet in your real job?

And Dov - yasher koach for repeatedly telling me like it is over the last month or so.  Many times your frank approach has helped me take a step that I might not have considered, or at best considered it slowly.  Please keep it coming (oops i remembered your off the Forum till whenever - well enjoy your sabbatical!)

Let's all do something for recovery tomorrow (Wednesday) - make a call, make a personal post, 100% shmiras ha-ayin! etc.

To this chevra - please if you are still up -  go to bed tonight knowing that you helped this fellow Jew!

Be matzliach!

NFLSCUCBIN2NOW

My dear friend Have2changeNOW,

The world is lucky to have you in it!!!!!

Have2changeNOW wrote on 29 Feb 2012 05:34:

You left out the "G" before the "NFL"
Have2changeNOW wrote on 15 Feb 2012 23:16:

So you're lucky to have my literary breadth and spellcheck around.
Have2changeNOW wrote on 29 Feb 2012 05:34:

but the truth is that even one of the great "GYE Gadols" couldn't spell your name-
gibbor120 wrote on 17 Feb 2012 20:27: