Hi everyone. I just joined the forum. I know that this topic may not apply to everyone but I'm sure that everyone has words of wisdom they could offer. Here's the question:

Should a person struggling with this issue be dating? Is it fair to the prospective girls (or boys)? A person with a serious drug addiction should not in good conscious start dating unwitting girls. Is it the same in this ענין? In the same vein, does the other party (girl being dated) need to be told, and if so when?

I don't know who is in charge of the website but it would be awesome if this could somehow find itself on the desk of Rabbi Dr. Abraham J. Twerski.

Hey there, a bunch of people have this concern including me. Here's a recent thread you can check out: www.guardyoureyes.org/forum/index.php?topic=4865.0
There's a bunch more too.
I think that there are two sides to the dating issue. From the addict's perspective, the issue is that as an active addict, he will have a hard time with not fantasizing about the girl. How on earth can an active addict choose a wife in such a state? It's nearly impossible to be objective and remain holy. And besides, if you don't stop before you get married, your going to go into marriage on the wrong foot, already not loyal to your wife.
Therefore, I think it's absolutely obligatory to have a good 6 months (3-4 months if you've already mastered 90 days a couple times) under your belt before starting to date. You have to be sure that you can control yourself. You have to know that even if you fall, you can get up fast and continue. You have to be self aware and know your weaknesses and what fences are necessary.
The other issue is the girl's perspective, as you pointed out. Isn't it fair to let her know so that she can make a decision? Wouldn't you want to know if your spouse had issues?
This is a very hard question. On the one hand, yes, I would want to know if my potential spouse had issues and I would be very upset is she didn't tell me before we got married about them and I had to deal with them later.
On the other hand, are we young adults (mostly in our early twenties) really mature enough to make objective decisions? If a girl told that she had OCD, my knee-jerk reaction would be to seriously consider dropping her. But if my incredible wife revealed this to me after we got married, I would probably not mind so much. After all, I would have gotten to know her and really appreciate her and OCD would not bother me as much.
I think that the general custom with these things is to reveal it after around 3 dates. But I think that with internet addiction, it's more complicated. The problem is that it is nearly impossible for someone who is not addicted, to see things from our perspective. A woman would definitely not be able to comprehend such things, definitely not a 20 year old Bais Yaakov girl. But from our perspective, we are just regular guys who did some bad things and we're now recovering. In fact, we are even stronger spiritually that we were before we got into this stuff, at least in some sense. But can we really expect a 20 year old girl to understand this?
You really have to ask your Rabbi. And if your Rabbi says you should tell the girl, at least ask her to go with you to your/her Rabbi so that you can be interviewed in front of her and she can hear from the Rabbi what he thinks of you.

Quote from Rabbi Twerski, from this page www.guardureyes.com/GUE/RTwerski/Can'tStop.asp .




Oh, and WELCOME!  You've come to the right place,  here's the official welcome package.  Take some time to read through it.

Welcome to our community, you have finally come home!

GuardYourEyes (GYE) is a vibrant network and fellowship of Jews of all affiliations, struggling to purify themselves and break free of lust related behaviors. For the first time, there is somewhere to turn to for help in these areas. We're all in the same boat here. Tzuras Rabim Chatzi Nechama  .  Once you've arrived, there's no turning back. Everyone here will just grab a hold of you and pull you up with them!
 
In the last couple of years, the GYE network has helped roughly 1,000 Jews get back on a path of sanity, self-control and healing and has touched the lives of thousands more. GYE has become known throughout the Jewish world as the number one address for dealing with these challenges which have reached epidemic proportions. 

The tools of our recovery program were developed with guidance from the best experts in the field, such as Rabbi Dr. Avraham J. Twerski, and through the personal experience of hundreds of Jews who successfully broke free. We use a unique approach that recognizes that there are many different levels in these struggles.

Our network is comprised of a website, a pulsating forum, phone conferences, daily Chizuk e-mails, support hotlines, therapists, live 12-Step groups and a program of recovery for all levels of this struggle/addiction.

All our work is free of charge and we zealously protect the complete anonymity of all our members.

Here are some quick things you can do to help you jump straight into your journey:

1) See the "GYE Program in a Nutshell" (Right Click the link and press "Save Link/Target As" to save the PDF file to your computer) that can help you quickly identify at what level of the struggle you are at, and which tools and features would help you most at your particular level.

2) Install a strong filter (see this page for more info). It is hard to break free of this while having all the garbage within a mouse click away.  The filter gabai at filter.gye@gmail.com will hold the passwords for you. We also highly advise installing "Reporting Software" such as webchaver.org to give you some accountability.

3) Join the daily Chizuk e-mail lists to get fresh chizuk every day.

4) Join the 90 Day Challenge. Scientific studies have shown that it takes 90 days to change the neuron pathways created by addictive behaviors in the brain.

5) Post away on this forum, where hundreds of yidden like you exchange chizuk and post logs of their journey to recovery. You will internalize that you are not alone, and you will learn the techniques and attitude that work for so many others.

6) Join our free anonymous phone conferences, led by an experienced sponsor.

7) If you need more general guidance, write to GYE’s helpline at gye.help@gmail.com or call the hotline at 646-600-8100.

8.) Download and read the "Guard Your Eyes Handbook" (a hard copy can be purchased for cost price over here). This handbook outlines the GYE approach in detail, and makes our network much more effective and helpful for people. The handbook has two parts:

A) The first part, "The 20 Tools", detail suggested tools and techniques, in progressive order, beginning with the most basic and fundamental approaches to dealing with this addiction, and continuing down through increasingly earnest and powerful methods. No matter what level our addiction may have advanced to, we will be able to find the right tools to break free in this handbook!

The second part, "Attitude & Perspective", detail 30 basic principles to help us maintain the proper attitude and perspective on this struggle. Here are some examples: Understanding what we are up against, what it is that Hashem wants from us, how we can use this struggle for tremendous growth, how we can deal with bad thoughts, discovering how to redirect the power of our souls, understanding that every little bit counts, learning how to bounce back up after a fall, and so on and so forth…

Our souls cry inside of us, but we have accustomed ourselves to block out that cry. Today we can begin to be who we really want to be.

We are here for you.
www.GuardYourEyes.org
GYE E-Mail Helpline: gye.help@gmail.com
GYE Phone Hotline: 646-600-8100
Help us help others: Donate Here

As Gibbor noted, Rabbi Twerski has already addressed the question of whether to tell a prospective wife.  Although not the final word on the subject, Rabbi Twerski's opinion should be given strong consideration.

One thing is certain, though: For many reasons, it is very important to be clean when dating.

Too often here I see a bochur in the parsha of shidduchim come here and pose similar questions, get the same answers, and disappear.  I suspect the part about telling the prospective kallah scares the pants off of 'em.

I got married while deep in addiction (had no idea I was an addict, thought I was just a baal taiva).  We've been married 20 years and she still hasn't been told.  (I'm in recovery for over 2-1/2 years).  Did my oversexed nature drive her nuts? For sure.  Was I metamei our home? Yes.  Is she any worse off for not knowing?  I don't think so.

Do I agreee that a bochur, who knows he's addicted, should be solidly in recovery before dating?  Absolutely.  For all the good reasons already brought down and referenced.

But, R' Twersky's opinion notwithstanding, I can't honestly advise a bochur, who is solidly in recovery, to tell his admiring, starry-eyed date about his very private, most embarassing aveiros, aveiros that he has put behind him.  I even submit that it's loshon hora about himself.  If and only if he's solidly in recovery.

Now reb Ploni24, please remember that I'm a nobody on this site.  "Hero member" just means I've posted a lot.  But this is an open forum, and I'm posting my opinion openly here for all to see and critique.  No one opinion is right for everyone.

Hatzlocha in your recovery, and then in your dating.

alexeliezer wrote on 12 Dec 2011 20:21:


I think there's a lot of truth to this.  If you're in good recovery and determined to stay there, then most girls probably would rather not know about what you did in the past.

That said, there may be some technical issues with not telling.  What if a person needs to attend a weekly SA meeting in order to stay clean?  Once he's married, his wife will want to know where he's going.