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TOPIC: Oh- i am a tired old and worn out man... 5733 Views

Re: Oh- i am a tired old and worn out man... 04 May 2011 21:45 #105187

kedusha Current streak: 717 days OFFLINE Administrator Posts: 3167 Karma: 46	Dear HM, Don't think these things are bad for marriage only if you get caught. They are bad for marriage in and of themselves.
	Just as an alcoholic needs to avoid that first sip, a lust addict needs to avoid that first slip.Slip today? No way! ;)Fall today? No way, Jose'! Last Edit: by .

Re: Oh- i am a tired old and worn out man... 04 May 2011 23:22 #105190

Dov
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Oooh, I think your words are so right, Kedusha. My wife taught me that it was not when I was caught by her that poisoned our marriage, but when I went and acted out - even though it was still a secret from her. It poisoned our relationship - not her...for she knew nothing about it.

But Chaza"l tell us (and I am not c"v trying to get 'religious', now) that kol ha'over al aveiro bachashai - nifra'in mimenu bagolui and they also tell us that kol hanosain eino b'mah she'eino shelo - af meh sheyeish lo, not'lin mimenu. This means that we do not really hide our acting out - it separates us from people and comes out in the relationship 100% fully. And that by secretly looking at a woman who we do not have, we lose all out appreciation and love for the one that we do have.

And I believe that neither of these things are 'midah k'neged middah' or punishments, at all! Rather, I believe that they are just facts of living in this world. It's the way it works, period. Like fire. Touch it, you get burned. It's not a punishment, but a natural result. I believe that is why Chaza"l phrased those (and some other such) sayings in the plural: "not'lin," and "nifro'in". Who is the "they"? It is Nature, which spiritually means malochim, of course....but it is not a punishment necessarily sent to mechaper or as a cheshbon. The cheshbon and punishment are other things...this is just the "wages of sin," as it were.

So it's unavoidable, rachmei Hashem is not much of a factor in them, it has nothing to do with frumkeit or kedusha, and it will eventually happen. Period.

(Hi there, Kedusha!)

"Off the 18-wheeler and fine on this tricycle!", "I do not particularly care exactly which "lav" suicide is. I'm not interested in it for other reasons...and you are probably the same."

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Re: Oh- i am a tired old and worn out man... 05 May 2011 03:38 #105201

regularbachur

As a bochur, maybe I can help remind you of the countless older bochurim (B"H not me) who are desperately searching and searching for their bashert to no avail. They wish they can have what you have - a loving wife who cares for them. Don't take that for granted. You were zoche to find yours - why not try a little extra hard to appreciate who and what you have and how silly and unnecessary it is to run to talk to other woman you don't know. Obviously, I'm not married, so I can't understand the taivah, and I'm certainly not judging you or anyone else, everyone has their own unique situation. I'm just trying to give some words of chizuk, if I may...

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Re: Oh- i am a tired old and worn out man... 05 May 2011 03:49 #105204

Dov
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That is a beautiful (and sensible) thought and advise.

Unfortunately, no sechel works for an addict, and when I am acting out G-d forbid, I would certainly throw away my wife and children for the ability to not lose this insanity I crave. It is overpowering and right and wrong are irrelevant to the struggle for me.

Yet by a miracle I am sober today. It's great, really.

So it may be exactly what he needs to think over, indeed. On the other hand, it may be so irrelevant that it is akin to road kill.

"Off the 18-wheeler and fine on this tricycle!", "I do not particularly care exactly which "lav" suicide is. I'm not interested in it for other reasons...and you are probably the same."

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Re: Oh- i am a tired old and worn out man... 05 May 2011 04:20 #105206

Reb Yid
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dov wrote on 05 May 2011 03:49:

That is a beautiful (and sensible) thought and advise.

Unfortunately, no sechel works for an addict.

First of all I have to get this off my chest. Dov - the word is advice not advise. To advise, is to give advice.
Ok.
I feel better now.

As far as the rest, it is so scary true!! It's like the brain and everything in it is just rendered completely useless!! (Reminds me of that commercial from years back of the frying pan and the guy says "This is drugs." Then they put in the egg and say "This is your brain on drugs! Any questions?" Remember that?)

I have felt since I joined here that since the brain doesn't help stop me, and it constantly convinces me that it's ok, so the brain becomes an enemy, and must be avoided at all costs during a Nisayon!!

As "Daveeed" from the new Oorah Shmorg said: "Why you so much think? You have to stop to think and just do!!!!!!!"

So to quote Nike - "Just Do It!!!"

I am special
I was chosen for this special mission.
I must succeed.
Klal Yisroel needs me.
Hashem needs me.
Chizuk From the Parsha www.guardyoureyes.org/forum/index.php?topic=3456.0
Letter From YH www.guardyoureyes.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3445.0;attach=1631

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Re: Oh- i am a tired old and worn out man... 05 May 2011 04:55 #105207

regularbachur

Dov and Reb Yid, you are completely correct. Once you are involved in whichever manifestation of this avairah you may be involved in, there in no sechel. There is no sense. However, I have found that sometimes, if you think it through clearly before, and you come out with a clear understanding of what's right and what's wrong, it's a good idea to make up some sort of keyword which you can think or say to yourself once you are already involved. For example, here you would come up with "unmarried bochrim," which would in a split second, bring back your whole thought process of how much you love and appreciate your wife, etc. This will obviously not work all the time, especially since usually the brain instantly comes up with a rationalization to counter that thought process. However, even if it works one out of ten times, it would be well worth it.

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Re: Oh- i am a tired old and worn out man... 05 May 2011 07:56 #105210

Derech Hamelech

Tell yourself the truth - which is "there is nothing better than your own genuine relationship with your wife". Most people never ever get to taste this because they always have other shmutz in their mind. The lust that is pulling you to the chat rooms is that you think the greatest pleasure lies there. But there is a greater pleasure by having only your wife in mind and deepening the relationship. You will see the deeper the total honost only relationship (even in the mind) is the best kosher taiva(if thats what you need to call it for now!). I have done it and cant believe the difference. the yetzer horah excuses try something different and better was a bunch of fantasy and rubbish. Try It!!

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Re: Oh- i am a tired old and worn out man... 05 May 2011 10:30 #105214

Reb Yid
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Bochur,
I totally agree with what you added.
Actually, I said very similar myself.

Reb Yid wrote on 14 Feb 2011 06:30:

Bochur14 wrote on 13 Feb 2011 21:43:

I have a question: what do you do when you find yourself going and looking at p**n more out of habit than anything and you don't even have such a strong urge for it until you're actually doing it? How do you stop yourself from doing it whenever you just get the idea?

Unfortunately, I don't think there is any good answer to that question. Any one of us here can give a wonderful answer to that question while it is you who is having the difficulty! That's because when we are not in that position, our brains are working properly and logically, rather than our bodies dictating to us what we should think. So the question really is: How do I get my brain to go back to normal mode and take charge, when my body is about to dominate?!! If there were a solid answer to that one, we could close down GYE and just post it once for all to see. So what now?
Like most of my posts on this site, I think this too is subjective. When Yosef Hatzadik (the original one!)

was about to be Nichshal with the wife of Potifar, it was the image of his father's face that woke him up and stopped him. The Gemara talks about those who would make a Shevua to stop themselves from doing something wrong. We all know the famous story of Rav Amram and his using Boosha to stop himself.
My advice to you would be: Think good and hard before you are in front of the computer about something that is most precious to you. For a Bochur that might be his potential Shidduchim, or losing the respect of his closest friends and Rebeiim, while for a married guy it may be his wife or children. Then think of a way to set yourself up a reminder that will instantly bring that thing back in front of your eyes and on your mind when you need it most. Lastly, put that thing somewhere near enough to your self while at the computer, or near the computer itself, so it will be ready and available in case of emergency.
Just as an example. As a married guy with wonderful beautiful Heilige children, there is nothing in the world that I would care to lose more than them. So i paid about $10 and I got myself a mouse pad specially made with a picture of my smiling children on it. When I am vulnerable, I use that mouse pad to remind me of why I don't want to do this.
Remember, anything you do can work, if you tailor make it to yourself while in the proper state of mind. It is very subjective.
Lastly, an important note. All this is based on your statement that you are not actively looking for a problem right now, it sort of just comes. But if you are holding by having already decided to do it, I have not found a way to stop myself then except for Davening that something goes wrong ie. computer crashes, someone walks in right before I'm about to start. But if it's random, there is more hope.
That's my 2 cents worth.
Hatzlocha!!

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Re: Oh- i am a tired old and worn out man... 05 May 2011 13:40 #105221

heuni memass

Chevra - A gut chodesh! To my dearest Kedusha, Dov, egularbachur, derechhamelech, ZS and all listening in.. I thank you so much for your advice (or advise) and really do appreciate all your words of wisdom in a mind that seems to be void of them at times.

What Kedusha and dov pointed out that it effects our marriage if we are caught of not- I totally agree and i did not mean that when i said i can get caught. all i meant was how crazy i can be at times.

regularB, DerechH, and rebY - yes there is nothing like a happy marrige and to show you how crazy the yetzer hara can make you- I b"h have a happy marriage a caring wife and lovable children. And the YH does not come to me and say - Oh, go check out what other people have because i may not fall for it. He comes ang tells me OK you have some quite time now - why not just find someone to say hello to, sounds innocent no? and I KNOW from experience what a hello leads to. And thats why i am here. Its not the mast*** or the porn that he findes his way in- its the "not so bad" and oh yo yo....

All i can say- the YH doesn't just let go- I wrote a post yesterday about how nuts it is... and as i get off GYE my little YH tells me now go say hello to some people.... and with Hashems help- I said i am not doing it TODAY. So BH i am still here with the chevras help.

while i was saying the pasuk this morning" Rabos machsavos be'lev ish.." we think we can do it - but only with "atzas hashem "... only when with hashems power .. "Hi sakum"... we will last.... FOR TODAY.

Thank you my friends-

---hm

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Re: Oh- i am a tired old and worn out man... 05 May 2011 17:01 #105240

David712 Current streak: 26 days OFFLINE Fresh Boarder Posts: 5 Karma: 0	Hm- you are on target its a daily fight. If the p* and M* is not the big fight right now then maybe ( efsher Dov can help) what you (and me) can use is a lesson on the big H (honesty). As you mentioned the chatroom is all about dishonesty. David
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Re: Oh- i am a tired old and worn out man... 05 May 2011 17:19 #105243

ZemirosShabbos OFFLINE Platinum Boarder pass the compote Posts: 6153 Karma: 72	a good chodesh reb HM, good to 'see' you here. i like your posts and attitude. KOT
	Sometimes life is like tuna with not enough mayonaise ~Inna beshem ZS Give, Forgive ~Cordnoy The reason I'm acting as if I'm pregnant, is because I'm expecting. I should be accepting. ~TZ Last Edit: by .

Re: Oh- i am a tired old and worn out man... 05 May 2011 17:22 #105244

heuni memass	David thank you - i think you hit it on the head its sure has to do with dishonesty. But again- in most area of life dishonesty doesn’t seem to be my issue so we cant say if only... Maybe you are right ? i dont know. will working strictly on honesty be sufficient?
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Re: Oh- i am a tired old and worn out man... 05 May 2011 17:23 #105245

regularbachur

There are times when you are triggered, and there are times, like you say, that you get into trouble out of habit, before the YH even strikes. I have found that those "habit times" only come when you are bored. When you are busy, or you make yourself busy, the issue practically never comes up. So, what do I suggest? Well, first of all, fill your schedule-run errends, volunteer, something! And for when you are bored, and your mind tells you (out of habit) to do an avairah, BEFORE the YH kicks in and drags you in, and it's too late, find something-anything- to do. Brush your teeth, call your mother, whatever... You may find that the feeling passes...

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Re: Oh- i am a tired old and worn out man... 05 May 2011 19:56 #105280

heuni memass	regularbachur very good point. However, there is a term called white knuckling (that means fighting the urge that moment) your idea is white knuckling and that's only a temp solution. My question about honesty was more do you think that focusing on becoming honest would be sufficient as a tavah breaker?
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