dov wrote on 06 May 2011 01:34:


Thanks Dov, you are so right, i felt it many times.

Hey Dov this is Luuustig.
I read what you wrote in the chizuk email (if its you). I always read your post and am very inspired by your straight uncomplicated way of approaching this addiction. The issue I have with this is that you mentioned that non addicts arent really wanted in the peogram because their not desperate enough. This statement puts people like myself out to dry. I cannot have access to unfiltered internet period. I fell many times and got up determined not to fall again. But after many months I somehow get access to something and fall again. my issue is not masterbation but rather I medicate by using the "shiksas" on the internet.
My battle is clear I know my enemy. Isolation, disconnection, are what breeds my addiction. I dont have a particularly exciting story about how lust has destroyed my life. Im still in yashiva learning away and am being successful baruch hashem. I know that this program is what I need because I know nothing else works, for the long term. 10 years of this pattern has taught me this. I have some concerns about the fact that most people in the program seem to be struggling with masterbating which is not my issue.  But that is not a reason why this program shouldnt work for  me as well. Everyone needs support from friends and everyone need hashem to take them  through their struggles. Lust addiction is a "grey" term and leaves room for many levels of people attempting to escape reality with this drug. I wanted to share this with you because its something Im struggling with. In back of my head I constantly hear "your not an addict your perfectly normal dont drive yourself crazy". I dont want to lust inappropriatly because it makes me feel worse than dead, it makes me feel dishonest and fake. I dont have a more exciting reason than that and I dont need one.
Byididus, Luuustig

Thanks, and I hear you, I hope.

First, let me get something zeitig out of the way: When you say "program", I assume you are referring to working the steps in the GYE framework and with virtual friends, and not to the group called "SA". I did not do it the GYE/virtual way and cannot comment about it, but at the same time it would be crazy for me to say that it cannot work just because I did not (and do not) get sobriety that way. (Besides, many guys on GYE have broken the virtual barrier and met each other for recovery already or gone to SA meetings.)

SA's white book reads as follows:

"The only requirement for membership is a sincere desire to stop lusting."

Nothing about sex with self (masturbation). Zero.

So please do not get put off by those who would tell you that is you are not really masturbating, then you cannot benefit 100% from this program. And if I came across as one of those very people, I apologize and thank you for setting me straight.

But the ingredient that i was trying to bring out in those posts was this:

If one is not truly desperate and does not really feel that they are in deep trouble, then I think that the 12 step program as i know it would be irrelevant to that person. And I feel that it causes big problems for many when the clientele get into stupid discussions about if staying alive by using the 12 steps is k'neged the Torah, if this or that kind of acting out is really ossur anyhow, or whatever. It makes people crazy and confuses the heck out of the only real issue: stop the paralyzing thinking that made us what we are (sick), and start doing something completely different that can work.

It does not matter if the person is desperate about their compulsive use of sex with self, with others, with a legal activity or with an illegal one - 1) they are desperate, 2) it is from lust, and 3) they cannot seem to stop. That is the only entrance fee.

Does it still seem that I am contradicting myself? Please clarify for me.

Whats up people. Dov, I wrote you a whole megila this morning and i dont see it here on the forum I hope I posted it. Either way I went out on a first date with an attractive girl last night, she said no. I dont think she was for me. But I said yes mainly because of the looks.(now Im being too honest) Today Im in some pain because of this so Im reaching out here to you guys. This pain will pass. The trick is to stay cool despite the pain. Ok Im done venting  Good shabbos to all.

Hey Luuustig! I gotta tell you, I went out with a girl recently who is an absolutely beautiful girl. We went out four times. After each date, my reaction was kind of pareve. She was a nice girl, we got along, and nothing seemed wrong. Even hashkafically, it made sense. I kept saying, i'll wait and keep going out with her till some real feelings develop. After the forth date, she said no for hashkafic reasons. I found myself really bummed out. Not depressed, but very disappointed. It wasn't till two or three days later, after giving it a ton of thought, that I realized that I had no business continuing to go out with this girl. Once she said no, and I was able to be objective, I realized so many things that didn't make sense about our relationship. Things that I noticed, some subconciously, some conciously, that were real deal-beakers. Thinking more about it, I realized that I was ignoring or downplaying all those things as a tradeoff-so I can have my trophy wife. I got to thinking that as much as we dudes are attracted to pretty women, it gets our heads all crazy. It's so important to ensure that we are objective when dating. OBVIOUSLY, easier said than done. But the trick is to be objective during the dating...

Thanks Dov I got what you were trying to say It just hit a raw nerve in me which was good because it got me to communicate what I was feeling.
Luuustig.

Hey RB I really appreciate the chizuk about dating especially from someone in it now. Your words are so true. Even while searching for a wife its so important not to loose the right perspective. We do get crazy when were focused on the girls looks and we can be so misguided by it. Dating is such a hard challenge because I need to spend time with a girl I feel is attractive, yet not make that the main focus in my decision. Its really hard, but with hashems help we''ll both find the right one soon.
Luuustig.

I'm Yirtzeh Hashem! Listen, being objective in dating certainly aint easy, but when you think about how you can mess up your life by being attracted to the wrong qualities and not focusing on what's truly important, it really puts things in perspective and makes the process so much easier. (As we both know, it's still not fun...) Hatzlacha in your search!!

your words are so true!!!!!
Luuustig

Btw, I have a first date tonight with a girl who's not super pretty so we'll see what happens...  :-)

regularbachur wrote on 09 May 2011 15:16:


Hey, make sure to tell her that you said that about her. It's a great ice-breaker.


Just kidding.... ;D

:-) Ya it'll break the ice-and she'll break my face! B"H, the date actually went really well...probably my best first date ever! So much for model looks, huh? I mean, she IS pretty. I just meant not a knockout like the previous one. (read my earlier post...)

Something so telling happened to me tonight. There was a picture on my table with a man holding his daughter from below while she hung from a tree. Seems pretty inocent, no? Not to my crazy mind. My mother was going to put this in a book of family pictures, and I mentioned that it looked kind of weird, or maybe even sick. it took her a minute to even realize what i was talking about. My point is i see things normal people dont see, my mind operates in the lust addicts time zone. Therefore I need to live according to my time zone not the rest of the worlds. Does anyone know what  I'm talking about, or am I totally nuts?

Absolutely! We as addicts can sometimes have twisted senseless minds. We misconstrue innocent things to feed our addiction. We mut be on high alert, and constantly aware of this, because, like you say, we do have a different time zone. We live on a different planet than everyone else.

...perhaps we should all just be shot.


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