Dear chaver,

Are you asking for any help, or not? You wrote:


What exactly are you hoping for?

Pretty much everything you wrote I have felt, and for years. So no pity, and no surprises, as far as I am concerned.

If you want help ask for it. Or are you going to run like from that shrink you started to get honest with? I know it hurts like hell. But have you had enough? Life can radically improve for you and there are many who were certainly far worse off than you and got better. I may be one of them.

So quit the pity party and get to work. Ask for help if you want it. Apparently you have succeeded at screwing yourself up, just like we did. You are not at all alone and people here can share what they got with you, if that's what you want.

Love,

Dov

I honestly dont know what heck i want anymore.  I am very happy that you got passed your pity already and moved and perhaps you forgot what it is to start out on this road.  Did it occur to you Dov that me signing up took weeks of thoughts and debate and i am ready to throw it away??????????????????????
So throw me a bone and quit making me feel worse then how I already feel with my sorry pathetic screwed up life.  I am sorry if i am not the textbook example of a someone trying to fix whatever may be left of my life.  I did not come in here positive as most people but this who and how I am.  So you can try to bring me closer or throw me out but I dont have emotional strength right now for lectures as to how or what I shoudl do and what makes sense to you!!!!!!!!!

Hi Mr Hope & less addict

I am happy that you have met one of our top experts Dov. Don’t get intimidated by his strict way of talking. He is the man. Stick to his advice and just keep on asking and posting.
There are people here who have been far worse off than you.

Hello Hopeless:

Truth is Dov's advice may in fact have been off the mark.  Most people come to this site because they really want to change they just don't know how.  Indeed one of the 12 steps is admitting our lives have become unmanagable because of our addiction.  You don't feel that way.

You feel that if you can just dump your wife and kids and regain your freedom to do what you will, you will be happy. If that is your attitude (even though it is wrong) there is really little we can say to set you back on the right path.  You want us to convince you to care, but you don't.

Is it that you don't care at all about your wife and children, or is that you care more about your own pleasure and in comparison to that you don't care?  Did you ever care for your wife and children? This addiction has a tendency to deaden your emotions to make you feel cold and uncaring. Certainly watching porn cheapens or negates any feelings that are part of a relationship, and reduces sex to a pure animalistic activity.

In short I wish you well, and I can tell you that the life of enjoyment you imagine you will have by leaving your family is a mirage that  will reveal its falsehood in short order.  But to convince you to stop when you don't want to? I don't think we can do that.

PS  We had a fellow here some time ago I think he called himself Mylaststop that had a silmilar story to yours, and we didn't get very far with him either.

If you think that being frei or goyish makes addiction to porn any healthier, easier, or more enjoyable, you should really read the personal story told on pps. 9-25 of "The White Book". At least then you'll have a real look at the kishkes of a goy who rode this rollercoaster.

Porn is cancer. It just is. Whether your Jewish or not.

If you can't get a hold of the White Book, I'll be glad to send it to you via e-mail.

E

Dear LH,

I wish you only joy and happiness in this world and the next.  I can promise that you will not have any of that by leaving Yiddishkeit and your family.  I'm not wishing anything bad on you - it's just a fact.  So why not give yourself a chance?

I suggest that you take the "one-minute challenge."  You need to stay clean for just a minute!  Once you've accomplished that, aim for 2 minutes.  Then 4 minutes.  Then 8 minutes.  You get the picture.  You begin with very manageable goals, and keep doubling the duration. 

If you really want to make progress quickly, I suggest making a neder that you will give (let's say) $100 to Tzedakah if you don't complete the duration in question (1 minute, 2 minutes, or whatever it is).

Of couse, this is only one strategy.  The GYE Handbook contains many other tips and strategies to help keep you on track.

hoplessadict wrote on 30 Mar 2011 04:23:
Sorry I used the wrong words,  my mistake - let me try again. I have not forgotten an iota of what it's like to start out. It took me years to get into recovery after knowing it existed, so there is no way I'd ever look down on you in any respect. I think you are actually way, way ahead of the majority of who you rightly call the "positive-sounding" people, because I actually believe that you and I are both equally 'hopelessaddicts', and those are not just words. I have still not won this battle, though I am sober today and for many years. I am still powerless to control and enjoy lust so I am still as much of an addict and a loser as ever.

Nevertheless, my life is no longer ruled by lust, because I have taken certain steps. For all practical purposes, I "have won"...but I know that it's really a favor from G-d, period. I am safe as long as I remain in His 'arms'. And that has nothing to do with Yir'as Shomayim, madreigos, or anything else. It's the suffering I went through that eventually brought me to some sanity through using the tools I was offerred.

You are in good shape as far as I am concerned - as good shape as a person can be at the stage you are at right now. I consider you very lucky and actually envy you, though you sound like you will not believe that. The only question is whether you will take the next steps. And they all hurt, but the relief is tremendous and progressive.

The only reason I lack pity is because I remember very well how painful your position really is. Giving in to whining and sympathizing only plays into the game we all know. We have wallowed enough. That's why you are here, I assume, and not still out there. And I know the pain that is involved in giving up our losing fight that we have all tenaciously and desperately held on to even though it has always failed us.

I also felt deeply that my wife and children were a giant pain in the butt. For years. I felt that the laws were my problem, whether they were from the Torah or from the government. I truly believed in my heart that if only my wife were a porn star with an insatioable fleshy apettite, I would not hurt so much, and if only fantasy, masturbation and promiscuous sex were allowed, I'd be fine. Really fine...and I know that should I act out my lusts again today for five minutes, I'd be right back in that exact same mind-frame and lose it all.

OK, so the only reason I really quit was because it was not working for me, not because I am moral or good. I have grabbed onto recovery because of enlightened self-interest. Maybe that's bad - but suicide, passive or active, are no pretty option for me.

Is there any way I can bring you closer than by letting you know that I am your brother? When I wrote "Love" at the end of my post above I meant it - and not as a do-gooder or a religious fanatic of some sort. I relate to you and know what you speak of. It is precious. Ugly, but precious. But we both left the moral beauty-contest years ago, no?

Respectfully (is that better?),

Dov

(Applause)

(who asked you)

dov wrote on 30 Mar 2011 16:15:



Thanks you Dov for clarifying your original comment.  I am sure you did not mean it the way I interperted it.  Well the good news, that I have spent so much time on this site, I have not had time to watch porn and lust as much as I Used to.  I have also met some wondeful people who KNOW And CARE and can relate to what I Am going throuugh  It is nice to fight a battle with people who are sharing common goals and only want the best for the person next to them.  I Hope I Can live up to the expectation of myself and eveyone around me and continue to grow.

Interesting to note about the thoughts of your wife.  I do not think that about them about being a porn star etc would make me happy.., I just dont know that i want them in my life.  I dont think they bring me any happiness or satisfaction.  BUt thats what marriage therapy is for.  MAybe it is because I am hiding a big fat secret from her so my perception is cloudy.  Who knows???? time will tell

I did spend time soul searching (the beauty of long lonely car ride to work every day) and I am here because deep down I think (stress onn think) that I may not be happy if I leave them all.  I need to find happiness here and then consider if my family can be part of me.  I think I need to seperate the two first.

and you can love me or respect me - either way I Am good - just dont beat me up

Understood.

dov wrote on 31 Mar 2011 04:21:


Dov

I was not aware that you are a man of so few words.................. :-)

I hope I did not scare you off.  In truth I am a real nice super fun guy (if I may say so)  I am just confused right now and having troubel juggling emotions and all else.  I am sure you can help lead the way for me.

Thanks again

hoplessadict wrote on 31 Mar 2011 04:01:


Reb Hopeless, that is one of the major symptoms of our disease -we become wrapped up in ourselves, and think about others in terms of the happiness and satisfaction that we can (or think that we can) derive from them. One of the main things that we must change in order to be healthy human beings is to realize that we must think more in terms of what we can do for others, and not the other way around...




Every word a gem...

That's the truth coming out of your mouth from deep down -if we can't find happiness where we are, we won't be able to find it elsewhere. That's one of the fantasies which we (not just lust addicts, but lust addicts are addicted to this kind of thinking) have a hard time getting rid of, we are convinced that if we only have thing X, Y, or Z then we will be able to be happy. But it's a big lie, and your words show that you know it!

This is especially true in the context of someone who has an obsession/addiction/habit of p**n and m*******tion. How many times do/did we spend hours in search of just the right material for the "ultimate" fix -and yet after exhausting and defiling ourselves, after the initial few seconds of "pleasure" realize that the illusion which we chased had eluded us once more? And I think that most of the chevrah here know exactly what I mean.

May Hashem send you much Siyyata Dishmaya to make the right decisions.

E

dov wrote on 30 Mar 2011 23:54:


(Sorry, it was spontaneous. After all, we're a compulsive bunch and you know that!)


  :D  ;D

(who asked you that?)