Tnx for starting this great thread! 

In general כל הנחלים הולכים אל הים, and any true ideas can be found in Torah - but sometimes there are barriers that make it easier to get the idea in a different format. But once you succeed, you can look back and find the ideas you used in seforim. Let's take Chassidus (Chabad) as an example.  

Recovery is not just stopping P&M it's living a full life, living w/ satisfaction and meaning, and Chassidus definitely helps with that a lot. It teaches how to live with a mindset of ein od milvado, bittul to Hashem, not being self-centered (the 12-steps has that theme), etc., so ultimately, once you stop acting out, there's a lot to live for. That's ultimately what היסח הדעת spoken about so much in Chassidus; it's not just a distraction - it's giving your full attention to holy things and living life - obsessing with your "green circle" rather than being consumed by the problem. It also gives you a very deep understanding of the cosmic value of even small wins (וכן בהרהורי מחשבתו אפילו במעט מזעיר - תניא פכ"ז), and kal vachomer big ones. There is a ton about staying away from ייאוש, not obsessing over falls, having realistic expectations that our nefesh habehamis is here for life, and Hashem gets נחת רוח davka from those that struggle, etc. 

So why doesn't it "fully" help? The reason might be because the struggle with P&M is unique. Even R' Amram Chassida needed practical solutions to resist the urge. ואם ראשונים בני אנשים kal vachomer for us. Tanya Perek Lamed talks about a Yoshev Kranos who is constantly triggered—that's life today for so many of us. עיניו רואות כל התאוות והעין רואה והלב חומד ויצרו בוער כתנור בוערה מאופה כמ"ש בהושע הוא בוער כאש להבה (see the Possuk there - it's referring to an obsession)... כי אין היצר שוה בכל נפש יש שיצרו כו'  והנה באמת שהיא מלחמה גדולה ועצומה לשבור היצר  הבוער כאש להבה מפני פחד ה' וכמו נסיון ממש...why did the Tanya pick that example? Because it's the most extreme type of fight. And he says even the greatest people usually don't fight as hard as that יושב קרנות needs to! Now for us, the sexualized street, and easy access to porn, we can get 100x more triggered than even that extreme יושב קרנות... - which is why these things are called "supernormal stimulus"...

On the other hand, we're not victims, and we can avoid at least some of the triggers as a first basic step.
Also, In Perek 28 it talks about treating voices in our head as if they were foreign people that best just being ignored as fighting them would just backfire, which sounds like it could been written in a modern therapy book lehavdil, as well as an emphasis on basic strategies like מח שליט על הלב (sounds a bit like CBT), היסח הדעת, etc.

However, strategies could remain theoretical. Even the most brilliant true ideas take a lot of to apply, especially when there's a part of us that is very resistant.  R' Amram used accountability. In Chabad, there's an emphasis on having Asei Lecha Rav / Mashpia that can keep you accountable and help you talk things out, as well as being vulnerable with one's Rebbe and asking for a tikun.

But it only works if you can be honest. Heart-to-heart conversations with a group (aka farbrengen) can also help a lot if it feels safe to be vulnerable, and that's a big IF, especially with these topics... the forums and especially talking to real mentors here fill that gap. This would all be true even if P&M were just stemming from a natural בוער כאש להבה. How much more so when, on top of that, P&M becomes a coping mechanism for dealing with emotions, life problems, etc. - it takes discussion with real people and repeated attempts to untangle things and figure out the root issues, and then focus on applying the solutions for long enough that they really stick and become טבע שני.

L'chaim!

I think it would be helpful if someone here who learned chassidus (chabad) and went to SA could figure out how to take the benefits of SA and describe how I can be done with Chassidus

yoshev wrote on 28 Mar 2025 09:02:

Reb Trying,

I would like to reiterate what @amevakesh said, this post I quoted is chock full of wisdom, a clear and nuanced breakdown of the topic. Lots to unpack in this gem of a post. 

May I flip the question back to you? You write that you want somebody to explain how Chassidus can work in lieu of SA.

As a Lubavitcher chassid, surely you have had plenty of your own experience with studying chassidus...can you try to be more specific, which concepts would help you deal with this struggle?

Another question: How long have you been trying to "learn how to apply" those concepts, and what degree of success have you had while doing so?

trying23 wrote on 30 Mar 2025 23:19:

This is the book. "God of our Understanding" by Rabbi Shais Taub
Exactly what you are asking for.
I read it and it is astounding.
www.google.com/books/edition/God_of_Our_Understanding/p-GlSgAACAAJ?hl=en

dis the only way to go...

m111 wrote on 31 Mar 2025 18:21:

This book isn't a SA group so I'm not sure I it will help if SA is needed

What I mean by I won't be dissuaded is that I won't believe someone telling me that chassidus is abstract and doesn't have the right tools.

I can't tell you exactly which specific concepts spoke to me because I would say a lot did, why it didn't help I can also give some excuses for, like needing to think about it more and perhaps discuss it with someone in detail.