כך הקב"ה אמר להם לישראל בני בראתי יצר הרע
ובראתי לו תורה תבלין ואם אתם עוסקים בתורה אין אתם נמסרים בידו ואם אין אתם עוסקין בתורה אתם נמסרים בידו
ולא עוד אלא שכל משאו ומתנו בך
ואם אתה רוצה אתה מושל בו – קידושין ל:

I have difficulty understanding this Gemara as an addict.

1. This Gemara claims that as long as we are 'oseik beTorah' we will overcome our natural desire to lust.

2. This Gemara claims that as long as we 'rotseh' - 'have the desire to' - we can control our natural desire to lust.

These claims don't seem to apply to the sex addict - as we all know that simply sitting and learning all day is not going to cure us of this disease, and ALSO - as much as we truly 'desire' to rid ourselves of this disease - that's not going to simply make it go away.

I just have a real problem with the fact that Chazal don't have a real solution for the modern Sex addict - isn't the Torah supposed to be a Torat Chaim?

Surely Chazal were wise enough to know that if you are addicted to something - that there are underlying psychological issues that need to be addressed - and that it's not enough to simply learn Torah?!

I have no problem with the 12 step program - but if Torah is supposed to be a manual of living for a Jew - how can it not include a solution for the addict?!


Does anyone feel the same way? Any thoughts, comments?

One could say that an addiction is not the Yetzer Hora. The YH is a malach which gets us to do things, an addict does them himself.

I know someone who has been in SA from the beginning. He told me that when he became frum and learned in Ohr Someach he had no problem of lust – he just learned all the time with 100% of his kochos. When he started selling tokens for the washing machines he was only 99% in Torah and the lust came back.

Hatzlocho!

i heared a very nice vort on this from the current Satmar Ruv in London Shlita (Vosner).

He said on one place Chazal said
בראתי יצר הרע ובראתי לו תורה תבלין
sounds that torah is the solution

on the other hand chazal said on the same omud
ואמר ר"ש בן לוי יצרו של אדם מתגבר עליו בכל יום ומבקש המיתו שנאמר צופה רשע לצדיק ומבקש להמיתו ואלמלא הקב"ה עוזרו אין יכול לו שנאמר אלהים לא יעזבנו בידו
sounds that only hoshem can solve it, not even the torah

So, the ruv said,
Hoshem says בראתי יצר הרע , the yatzer that hoshem created, the genarel yetzeh hora of the normal person, ובראתי לו תורה תבלין, the torah will handle it. just sit and learn and you will be ok.

but, יצרו של אדם מתגבר עליו בכל יום ומבקש המיתו , the yatzer hora that the person created by himself, by looking at inappropriate stuff and so on, ואלמלא הקב"ה עוזרו אין יכול לו , for that you need special treatment, the torah is no longer enough, you need help dirtectly form hoshem

i that this is simliar to the answer from BB. Addiction is probably the יצרו של אדם.

דרך ארץ קדמה לתורה

Without derech eretz, no matter how much Torah you learn, it won't help. In fact, I think the kabbalistic sefarim warn that, until a person has perfected his middos, then the Torah he learns actually fuels the sitra acher. (Also, Torah is compared to water; it will only help grow whatever you've got planted--if you've got weeds in your field, it will make those weeds grow). But, מתוך שלא לשמה, בה לשמה

I have found that the root of my addictive nature is that my middos are messed up--self-centered, egotistical, etc. When I work on that (which is a major part of the program of recovery), my obsession with lust becomes MUCH weaker.

Has this been at all helpful?

--Elyah

Eye.nonymous wrote on 28 Apr 2012 18:12:

See Here

shteighecher wrote on 27 Apr 2012 14:53:


I just read this vort, it's mamash geshmack, amazing chizuk, thank you for sharing it!

shteighecher wrote on 27 Apr 2012 14:53:



Just to set the record straight: I am not the Satmar Ruv of London Shlita. I didn't make up what I said either, I heard it somewhere.

Blind wrote on 20 May 2012 17:05:

Of course not! his name is Wosner, yours is Beggar, what's the havamina?

TehillimZugger wrote on 21 May 2012 10:41:



This is an anonymous website. My real name is not Beggar any more than yours is Zugger, Kalonimous Hadad.

Blind wrote on 26 Feb 2012 21:33: