You all have this notion that the yezer harah is some dark force working against you making you do things. Wake up. The yetzer harah is nothing more than chemical interactions in your body that you disagree with morally. If you know something is wrong, then you must learn to stop doing it. You cannot just ignore reality and pretend it does not exist.

Dovid lusted after a married woman, and sent her husband off to die in the front lines of a war. This was clearly wrong, which is why Dovid was never forgiven for it. This was no test from Hashem, some demonic force or a yetzer harah. Dovid was a man too, and wanted to be with this girl. So he did something that was wrong. After the fact he tried to make ammends by apologizing, but clearly he was never forgiven, and his kingdom was ripped out from underneath him.

What should Dovid have done? Run away?

No.

He should have forced himself to be morally upright.

This man's case here is different however. This man is being put in constant situations where he is coming in contact with young girls he is attracted to. You can't just run away from your fears. One must stand up to them and face them head on.

Chas V'Shalom to  talk about Dovid like that!  The Gemara says that "Kol HaOmer Dovid Chata Aino Ela Toeh- anyone that says David sinned, is mistaken"

We, lowly mortals, who have no way of understanding the heights  that Dovid Hamelech reached, and the holiness of his Neshama cannot talk with such matter-of-fact disdain for our Roeh Ne'eman!

Dovid Malka Meshicha!!

Dovid whose Malchus  is eternal!

Dovid who will be honored with Birchas HaMazon at the Seudas Livyasan  of the Tzadikim when mashiach comes (an honor, that the Gemara tells us,  he earned, over Avraham, Yitzchak and Yaakov!).

Dovid, whose tehilim  is what sustains Klal Yisroel throughout the ages!

Dovid, who lived more morally upright at his weakest moment, than any of us ever did. Ever.

Do you realize who you are talking about?!

My personal opinion is that this girl is not seriously looking to change and is just looking to  stir the pot and rile up the good people on this forum. Either that, or she needs a therapist, and fast.

But she surely has no concept of what the Yetzer Hara is, how he works, and what or duty is in regards to fighting him.

I would remove the blasphemous post. But I leave it to GuE to make that call.

Chazak V'Ematz!

Dear Debbie,

I can bring you a hundred sayings of Chaza"l that explain that the story between Dovid Hamelech and Bat Sheva is not what it seems. Shlomo Hamelech had to be born from this marriage. Moshiach will ultimately come from this union. Hashem had to disguise this holy union in a story that looks bad, otherwise the Satan would have ruined it. We see the same again and again, wherever any union has to do with Moshiach. Lot and his daughters. Yehudah and Tamar. Boaz and Rus. All of these unions led to David Hamelech and to Moshiach, and they had to be disguised. The Tanach is not what it seems. It is way deeper and more profound than anyone can begin to imagine. And we see clearly in Chaza"l that dovid was forgiven. The doors of the Kodesh Hakadoshim didn't open for Shlomo Hamelech until he asked "for the sake of dovid your servant".

But let's deal with the real problem right now, instead of bringing up this old post. Did you see the answers to your story on the forum over here?

I spent over an hour writing you a reply, so please take the time to read my reply and the reply of "me", and feel the care and love for fellow yidden that is going on in this forum. We really care about you Debbie. If you want to be helped, you have come to the right place.

Mevakesh- I understand why you would feel hurt and incensced with DebbieSteiner. However, you must remember that as women we are taught the very basics of Tanach and the story Debbie wrote above is the same story I, and other, BY girls have heard over the years. I am sure Debbie did not mean harm by what was written, simply she was repeating that which our teachers and Rabbaim taught us. Perhaps the message here is that girls need more education on these matters, and should be told not to take at face value those parts of the stories which are 'deemed' fit to tell us.

Far be it for us to judge if Debbie wants to change or not. Debbie is clearly in need of help, and I fear that by using strong language against her, and arguments which were validly taught to both her, me and probably many other women, we are only pushing away yet another BasYisrael.

Basyisrael2012.

You are right that we shouldnt jump to judge anyone, lest they  get upset and get pushed away further.

However, if many of us here, who are working hard to keep things flowing in the right direction, feel that she isntt sincere in her posts and is actually just looking to cause trouble for the rest of us (and for all we know may not even be a Bais yaakov girl at all) it is our duty to root it out.

I have enough experience with Bais Yaakov girls (in good ways and unfortunately in bad ways) to know when a post is authentic or not. My personal view is that it isn't. It doesnt sound like a geunine call for help, rather like a  cunning post from the Yetzer Hara, as sometimes pops up here (and we delete right away Baruch Hashem)

I may be wrong, but I doubt it.

Chazak V'Ematz!

I've heard that in one Bais Yaakov they taught the girls (I believe even at high school age) the five afflictions of Yom Kippur were no: 1) eating 2) drinking 3) leather shoes 4) washing 5) anointing one's body. Notice what they left out. They were also taught something entirely different for the story of Bnos Lot as well as Tamar & Yehuda. Now I'm sure teaching youngsters about these stuff is not easy but to actually teach them the wrong thing can't be right. So maybe Debbie was indeed taught that Dovid Hamelech sinned.

It's a catch 22. You don't want to talk to kids about it in case they don't know anything and you don't want to give them ideas... But then, when they do know, we don't know they know and don't talk to them either, which causes them not to have where to turn for help if need be.

I am in touch with Rav A.J Twerski about this issue. I hope he has time to reply...

I heard in the name of some big Gedolei Yisroel here in Israel, that when we teach these types of  topics in the Torah as "Torah" itself, then it will be "kodesh" and therefore no harm will come from it.

Mevakesh Hashem wrote on 30 Oct 2008 18:31:


With  all due respect to Mevakesh Hashem and all others who are bashing Debbie: While her story may seem pretty crazy its unfortunately not so unlikely. I have seen worse stories with my own eyes. Even very frum girls (and guys too) that have gone way off the deep end, doing unspeakable things. I dont think, like bas yisrael and some others said, that Debbie is properly informed of the whole story with Dovid Hamelech.

I think she is for real and there is no reason to bash her. I dont think some loser out there has so much time to sit here and make up stories like hers. I may be mistaken and there are such pathetic losers out there. Whatever. I know that there are those that have stories much worse than Debbies and that alone makes me believe that this story is true.

Debbie I hope you don't get discouraged from the non believers. You came here because you care about G-D and doing the right thing. You came here for your own good, to stop doing whats wrong and to fully repent. G-D helps those that call out to Him, so He is surely going to come to your aid now. Just keep trying and you will get to where you want to be in the end.

All (at least most) of us on this forum have messed up stories. Who is to say what isn't real (granted - anything that is contrary to the torah wouldn't help us out)?

Regarding "the yetzer harah is nothing more than chemical interactions in your body." Almost every single aspect of the everyday natural universe (trees, humans, weather) can be explained in scientific terms. In the human body alone, there are BILLIONS of chemical reactions that are taking place EVERY single second (every second we produce ~2 million red blood cells - each cell requires hundreds of thousands of chemical interactions. This is just for one cell that makes up just a portion of the blood). This only adds to my belief that Hashem is clearly in charge. Hashem created us and continues to allow us to live through these natural chemical interactions. So the point I am making is: by saying that the yetzer harah is based on chemical interactions, this does not go against the notion that the yetzer harah is a dark force that makes us do things. These 2 ideas can coexist.

In any event, I hope that "debbiesteinerwins" gets the help she needs.

eme,

I wasn't responding to her story, and wasn't doubting that it may well be true. Chas V'Shalom for me to bash anybody or their  struggles with the Yetzer Hara. Believe me, my story wass pretty messed up too!

What bothered me was the way a supposed Bais yaakov maidel so unabashadly spoke of Dovid hamelech! It just doesnt seem like the way a Bais Yaakov educated girl would speak.

If I am wrong about her, I apologize for speaking so strongly, and do in fact hope and pray that she gets the help she needs.

Chazak V'Ematz!

Mevakesh Hashem wrote on 30 Oct 2008 18:31:


Um.... Have you read the text yourself lately? It says in plain Hebrew right in there that Hashem never forgave Dovid for that. Before you start quoting gemara, perhaps you should read NACH first!

debbie, we cant understand ANYTHING without gemara - gemara is the key to understanding EVERYTHING. the torah shebaal peh and the gemara is the only thing the other nations have not stolen from us! it is our lifeblood, our encyclopedia. but i really think you have anger inside you, i can just feel it.you may not even know this.you need a third party to help you understand yourself.
jack

Whether Dovid sinned or not is not important right now dear Debbie. What is important is that YOU stop sinning :-)

Please get help.
Zeva Citronenbaum
845-222-0580
Confidential Hotline
zcitr@aol.com

Hi All,

It appears to me that many of you may be sexaholics like myself, and will never get cured only gets worse, It's realy a mental illness thats makes us want to connect phisicly and/or emotionaly to any good looking girl or woman (and for me even boys) then we must act-out our thinking and we indulge in porn and/or mesturbate and it keeps on geeting worse.

This is a proggersive illness. The only option for me was to "start working the twelve steps" and B"H today I am sober now for about 1000 days.