ZemirosShabbos wrote on 07 Jul 2011 17:50:

i believe that zs is correct....

Avi/tzaddik90 confirmed my suspicions that indecisiveness is one of the symptoms of the malady from which we suffer.

That is, when it comes to things we might/might not want to do or might be nice/beneficial/enjoyable/etc. we can vacillate until the situation becomes shev v'al ta'aseh (i.e. the opportunity has passed, the question is irrelevant, the point is moot etc.).

A good illustration thereof is the wedding I didn't attend tonight (even though the bottom line is -I really wasn't so interested in going. Even my wife who would have liked me to be there -even though we don't see each other at the wedding, and we ride the Mehadrin bus -told me that I could feel comfortable opting out). At the end of the day, the reason that I didn't go was that I couldn't decide whether or not to go -until it got so late that it just didn't pay...

The same is true as far as the SA meeting tomorrow is concerned. A week ago I was 100% sure that I was going to jump into the water head first. Now that the meeting is tomorrow morning, I am almost sure that what kept me from going to a wedding tonight will keep me home tomorrow.

(Ironically, one of the factors in the non-decision to go to the wedding was that if I go into Jerusalem for the wedding tonight and get home late, I would most probably not be able to be up and out in time to travel in again the next morning. My wife wasn't at all disappointed with this being a consideration. However, in the end none of the factors that were weighed was the deciding factor. The deciding factor was my own indecisiveness).

In a way I am leading much of my life by default. Until several years ago, I had had some ambition and direction in life. Some shattering life changes seem to have shifted me into survival mode. By this I mean progressively trying less, doing less, and accomplishing less to the point of doing only the bare minimum just to get by and worrying how to try and splice the ends so that somehow they meet. Loss of ambition for me came hand in hand with the illness and progressive loss of a dear loved one.

I have to stop surviving and start living.

That's why I think that I have to stop thinking about going to the meeting, and just do it. Theoretically, I have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

I guess I'm just a chronic vaccilating procrastinator. I let the ticking second hand of the clock make my decisions for me.

That's why I think that the only solution is to stop thinking about it and just do it.

ZemirosShabbos wrote on 04 Jul 2011 17:48:


I've thought about the phone groups and rejected the idea for two main reasons:

1. I have a major time conflict that the time difference between Israel and the US do not make any better.

2. As I have told some other GYEs, I have a more than mild allergy to the phone (maybe from the years of phone-s** addiction (my first call was at 9 yo)?)

Also, from my reading here on the forum -my almost unequivocal conclusion has been that anyone who saw progress working the steps via phone conference, reached a point where it still wasn't enough while it was enough to push them to take the next step of joining live SA groups. I have already had enough of half measures.

Your timely input is welcomed chevrah.

Start shooting...

ben durdayah wrote on 07 Jul 2011 20:00:



Here is one example of a GREAT GYE GUY who has attained his levels exclusively from the DC Calls. He has never attended any SA meetings.

Steve wrote on 13 Dec 2010 20:07:

Sharp eye Yossel -he was the exception that made my observation almost unequivocal. Be'emes it is the DC calls that appeal to me the most based on the success stories you see on the forum.

Also, I am only counting those that did step-work -not Torah/Chizzuk success stories like battleworn. Torah and Chizzuk has not been working for me.

Remember, I'm not looking just for prolonged dry spells -I'm looking to tap into the wonderful program that Steve describes.

He is NOT the only one!

I believe Shlomo & Shmendrik & YVY & many many others are deep in Recoveryland by now!

So what does that mean for me?

I just want to remind you:

ben durdayah wrote on 07 Jul 2011 20:00:


Shlomo?

Shlomo wrote on 03 Jul 2011 20:52:


Haven't heard from shmendrik for ages.

Now let's say that YVY was matzliach with the DC calls. LeMaaseh -his posts are such classic 12 step lingo. What's the nafka minah between this and face to face if the program is kosher?

cannot decide for you but if you feel you need to go then bite the bullet and go

some of my friends went and even though it is a big step and not one taken lightly, none of them turned into frogs or started speaking in tongues (except for _____) and they generally stayed their same wholesome selves.
except that that they found fellowship and a path to life.

ZemirosShabbos wrote on 07 Jul 2011 21:04:


Zemmy, he (_____)was transmogrifying into frogs and speaking in tongues long before we ever met him!

That is his wholesome self.

Seriously though, thanks for your input.

E

ben durdayah wrote on 07 Jul 2011 20:46:


I was referring to another Shlomo. The Shlomo who leads the night call has never been on the GYE Forum. (BTW, there are MAY guys on the calls who haven't been on the Forum!)

Shmendrik & many others have seen that they are making much greater strides using the phone groups than with the Forum, so they just about dropped the forum. They are still very much in Recovery, though. Shmendrik is one of the chashuvim on DC's midday Call.




I am not saying that you should go on the Calls rather than face-to-face. In fact, Face-to-face has worked where the Calls haven't, I doubt anyone tried the obverse (going from SA to the Calls). :D


If you want to go to SA, gei gezunterheit! I was just referring to your statement that the guys from the Calls end up in SA anyway so you don't see a need to take that intermittent step. (It is a pity, though, because most GYE guys who go to SA end up leaving the Forum....  :'( Usually it is because their "sponsor" told them to...  )

Now I understand you better.

Just to keep you guys posted:

After lengthy deliberation, considering the the travel time to the group that my friends participate in coupled by the fact that I am feeling under the weather (does anybody else here come down with colds in the middle of the summer?), I decided to stay home today. However, over the course of the next week I will iy"h and bl"n contact one or two of the frum guys (one of them used to be active here on GYE, and attends a group in my area) whose numbers I got from two GYEs over here and find out more about the groups closer to my home before I travel close to two hours to the meeting that I know to be "friendly".

Wishing you all a Good Shabbos,

E

BTW -today is day 10

baruch hashem, day 10!
yes i have a cold during the summer also.
have a great shabbas.

rebbe EBD, whatever you do we are with you
wishing you the very best
and a great and peaceful shabbos
zs

how are you doing today?

ben durdayah wrote on 08 Jul 2011 05:45:


How is it going?

Good luck.

--Eye.