Yashar Koach!  Dov I can see you have great wisdom And i wish you all the best.

I think there might have been a misunderstanding.

I am not sure but i never said these methods are guaranteed i hope i did not give that impression. Of-course there is different ways to approach problems. The Ikar for me and my friends were these three methods (and of-course alot of other things as well but those were the ikar)

I might be wrong and if i am please correct me but this is what i have learned. Alot of people approach Hashem as there Best friend from the start. But if He's our best friends can't that make it a normal thing? Don't we have to have fear from Hashem first than love? If he's our friends than it make it okay to continue and might make us feel like, we can easily go with what ever pace we feel. 

Again i apologize if i gave the impression of this way or take the highway. I gave my two cents on things i have experienced and what worked for me. How can we judge and say it wont work for others especially if they haven't given it a shot.

Kol Tov

Hey, you are not alone - a few folks have accused me of doing exactly that pushy business!

I hear what you say about ahavah letting some people feel they can just 'take it easy' and keep messing around. That is a mistake, but I do not believe that I am the one who can tell anyone else that. As far as I am concerned, an addict does have the right to keep using his drug - and no one can tell him he can't - it will not stop him. He needs to learn yir'oh from the pain of using his drug, be it masturbation, alcohol, gambling, heroin, rage, whatever. He needs to come to the point that he discovers that he cannot use his drug any more. Not because Hashem tells him so, but because he himself discovers it.

To me, the fact that it is an aveiroh is actually a distraction from recovery and prolongs the agony and destruction because it fools a person to think that he is experiencing a struggle to be good vs bad - to do Hashem's Will vs the Soton's will....and in truth his is a battle between losing his life to insanity and sickness vs living life by getting sanity and wellness.

The sforim are there. The aveiro is well-known. I do not believe that learning the gravity of the aveiro is what I needed. It was a mistake, actually. I did that and learned the entire sefer Yesod Yosef (not the one about mussar and avodah by the talmid of the Kav haYoshor , but the one that the kitzur suggests that is strictly about hz"l), and all it did for me was to get me horribly guilty and confused because I could not stop. I also read the english of Shivchei haR"N about Rebbi Nachman, zt"l. I went to mikvah - not daily as you suggest, but I did what i knew at the time, and sincerely. No go. It was horrible.

And I do not believe more yir'ah is what many need. We have yir'ah - it is just not effective. Maybe we do not really have the right yir'oh? Really, I am sure we do not have it....do any of us ever get it? I do not know. All I know is that ein chovush matir es atzmo mibeis ha'asurim.

We need mesiras nefesh to open the door to get well, period. And more than anything else -more than any sefer or mikvah, it was my acting out - my aveiros, you might say - that brought me to the point of mesiras nefesh. I lost myself to lust - I nearly gave it my nefesh - and had no choice but to ask Hashem to get me back. There was nobody else around to ask. And he led me to recovering sex/lust addicts who learned about recovery from drunks and shared it with others. I followed their direction and here I am, with you and with Hashem. So far, so good.

Perhaps you are talking about yidden who can stop, and I am talking of addicts. Perhaps you are only talking about yidden who do the aveiroh and it has not invaded their lifestyle yet. My business is in addicts. Hopeless losers to lust who have tried everything. So by all means, I hope whoever wants to try your derech does it exactly. And the ones that lose and are finally convinced that they just can't do it and give up completely will have me as their friend at the other end of the mikvah hall...

Hi!

I have been browsing around the forum. Now that i have read people's stories i hear what you mean. It seems that i may be way off. Anyways i just have to say im very impressed by everyones support. I really wish i would have found this site long time ago. This forum is amazing i can't get enough of it.

Anyways if anyone is still interested in the books, please let me know it doesn't do any harm and i am sure it will be an great resource in helping us recover! They are free and been sponsored the shipping is also free. We have received good feedback from them already. Thanks!

yitzi.26 wrote on 11 Nov 2010 07:46:


Hope you dont mind me posting a few words here, but I need to say something....

Very few things impress me in a person as much as the ability to say " I may be wrong."

May HKBH guide, and heal you 

dov wrote on 11 Nov 2010 03:42:

Yup. And I don't want to go back and kick myself for my past ability to get into the world I trusted the most. Because while I now have other options, it's possible that bdieved that was the best / only place to be that gave me a place of trust.

What was I supposed to do -- spend 24/7 in an untrusting world?

Boruch Hashem, we all are here and seeing different options ahead of us. Ones better than the aveiros we clung to in the past. But let's not give up our search for 'security' in the effort.

Thanks SO much for your post. It hit home.

Wow, great posts from Reb Dov...

Yitzi... do you have PDF version of the book in english written by Minchat Yehuda - Rabbi Yehuda Petaya? I can maybe send excerpts of it in our daily chizuk e-mails of shmiras ainayim (which are not geared specifically for addicts)...

Thanks, Briut. That chizzuk meant a lot to me, really. Let's get together for some sashimi sometime....

Yitzi.26! Ashrecha. You may be one of the most open-minded people I have ever met. Alei v'hatzlach in your beautiful derech and in everything Hashem helps you with!

dov wrote on 11 Nov 2010 19:34:

Food; yeah. I'm always open to some good food. Anyplace you chooze.

But if it's going to be Japanese, I've got to ask if virtual chopstix exist for this virtual forum? Maybe it's like those avatar games where you have to earn them by posting. HEY - I'VE GOT IT. A FUNDRAISER FOR GYE. WE GET VIRTUAL POINTS TO USE TO BUY STUFF ON THE GYE WEBSITE. WE CAN EARN THEM THROUGH POSTS OR BUY THEM ON THE WEBSITE. OR ON EBAY. THERE'S GOT TO BE A STORY TO TELL HERE, SOMEWHERE! FARMVILLE, HERE WE COME!

yitzi.26 wrote on 11 Nov 2010 07:46:


I must say, I am impressed by your humility here.

  --Eye.