DT there is no contradiction between Dov and Briut.  Both are telling you that you can't save the world singlehandedly.  When you tried to you were like the hero sitting at the edge of the cliff in despair.  But you don't have to do it alone. Hashem is calling out to you telling you the sword to conquer the YH its over by GYE. Take a look.  If you go there you'll get the ammunition and reinforcements you need. And day by day keep fighting. When you look back you'll see you saved the world. Hatzlacha and don't give up.

i keep thinking ill fnd the key, the magical potion to sobriety here.
but the more im on here, the less it seems there really is a answer aside from hard work an shvitzing it out...but nu i do work hard and still i mess up.when i am in the YH's grip it is like i am cazy, i a not me i am a puppet in hands of a lunatic.

Surrendering is difficult. It's hard to burn bridges and walk away, without leaving a back door for another chance at our drug.

It's not a matter of being dramatic - but the fact is that your life does depend on getting clean, even though it may not seem like that at times. And when things get tough, that's the time to just keep going, and remember that to fall is to die. So pick up the phone, make a call. Or two. Connect to people, to Hashem.

And keep on rocking!

you know, the surrender concept is so hard for me to understand. when i feel weak, i pray and i pray and i found from experience it doesn't help. i used to htink it would

i would pray and over and over again 'G-d please don't let me fall' . sometimes i wouldn't, but then sometimes i would.

i don't understand HOW to surrender, like how to even begin doing it properly. evidently the way i was trying, through Tefillah, was not matzliach.

on a lighter note, sun's coming out for me. feeling a lot better, and i'm so glad i didn't fall when i was down, it owuld have made me even more depressed.

i love being clean, it makes me feel each sheki'ah as if i've accomplished something important that day.

Glad to hear that you're feeling good!

thanks ninja-dude

yeah, feeling good, feeling clean.

tell you my trick, i did the neder thing. it works. nooooo scratch that it's workING. hopefully it'll get me where i need to go...

If it works for you, that's great! Remember that anything we do as a geder just gives us some space - it's up to us to use that space.

i throw my hands up in the air sometimes,
saying eyooooooooooooooo
don't like this neeeeeeeeeeder

and it goes on and on and on
and it goes on and on and oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooon

oh and happy chanukah:

ahahahaha i know. i like the dude in the nasa suit.
one of them, the one that does the slow chorus is giving me gay vibes. dunno why....am i allowed to say that?

what if i fall?

no i got a confusing PM too.

not gay at all but i have a big gaydar (gay radar) and yeah even if a dude is pretty much acting regular sometimes in my head im thinking 'gay'. i'm not proud.

i know being gay is a very hard, challenging form of SA. i don't hate people who are gay, i feel their pain. but i still, understandebly, will not be getting changed in a lockerroom if...y'know? 'tznuis'.

what i meant by 'what if i fall' is just that. i got scared in middle of the night. reeally don't wnat to fall osmetimes i just get panicky about it.

David/Rage wrote on 07 Dec 2010 18:24:


that's a biggee right there. thanks man.

desperate_teddybear wrote on 07 Dec 2010 17:59:
Sorry I can't just let this part sit, since it's not really the ikkar of the thread, but I feel an obligation as one of the gay-inclusive guys on the site to speak up.

I just want to point out that whether or not a "dude" is acting "regular" (??) is not a prediction of his se*ual orientation. I know plenty of straight guys who limp around like fairies, and plenty of gay men who act like Marines. And even if that's not true, I don't know what the word "regular" means.... After all, most frum men don't look terribly "regular" to mainstream society and yet we demand equal access and treatment. Are tzitzis hanging out any more "regular" than, maybe, tight tank tops? Oy.

I'd also like to point out that refusing to (knowingly!) change in front of a (possibly!) gay man in a locker room is probably not "regular" behavior. You might have some "yuk" factor there (and whose issue is THAT?) but I very much doubt that the sight of you is going to make him approach/solicit/assault you.

Briut i commend your courage in saying that.

What was the courageous part?