TiredOfFalling wrote on 25 May 2010 18:07:


I'm not sure if you mean now, or eventually - and the two issues certainly confuse each other, don't they? Part of the reason you want to stay in contact with her, even now, is the hope that eventually, things will work out with her.

So yes, I can understand the desire to be with her. But you know that it's not the right thing to do - it won't make you healthier, it won't help you grow, and it won't help you grow. Instead, it'll be the root of an unhealthy relationship (even while she's far away), it'll hurt you, and her as well - both emotionally and spiritually.

You know this. You understand what you need to do. If you'd like to discuss this further, feel free to PM me. And if you need support and chizzuk, I'm totally here for you. But if you want me to convince you, or change your mind - the only one who can make the decision here is you. No one here, no matter how much we care for you, can make that decision for you.

No, that's not the reason. We dated for a long time without touching. I liked her because of her passion for life and Torah.
I understand that my relationship with her is unhealthy. I don't fully understand why it's necessary for me to cut of communication completely. And if I do it's gonna really hurt. It'll feel like an appendage is being cut off.

So, if we're talking love, then I don't understand how you "know" it's unhealthy. And if we're talking "unhealthy" then I don't know why you'd even imagine staying. So, perhaps you could re-address my earlier question -- which category is she in?

Briut wrote on 25 May 2010 18:16:

[quote="TiredOfFalling" link=topic=2539.msg66782#msg66782 date=1274836961]



Wow! I can relate to that.

It's called co-dependency and is often a part of sexual addiction

[Question 13. Do you have a destructive need-a desperate sexual or emotional need for someone? (pg 8. Sexaholics Anonymous)]

and certainly is in my case where I am co-dependent on my wife.  If I think she loves me I feel good if not I can't find any menuchas hanefesh. Not a fun way to live

I have no idea what the right answer is to your dillema but it sounds like things are off to an unhealthy start.  The Torah has a klal of "chayecha kodmin" - the fact that she might be hurt is not enough to loose your own life.  Also, if you dig down deep you may see that it is not her being hurt that you are worried about, but that if she is hurt YOU will feel bad.

Hatzlacha

Thanks Jooboy!

Could someone explain more about co-dependence and how it relates to sex addiction?

I don't know much about the term "codependent." However, I think that most of us here can relate to the idea of having an extra portion of "I want you to want me, I need you to need me." Addiction usually has more of a root in those of us that have a deep-rooted need to feel wanted, a neediness. This often leads to unhealthy relationships, where we feel wanted, both because of how they make us feel, and also because of how wonderful we can make our partner feel. 

TiredOfFalling wrote on 26 May 2010 01:22:


First of all, I may not understand your situation fully, but I have been in a similar situation - having to say goodbye to someone, and having it really, really hurt inside - and knowing that, even worse, I'm hurting her, too. But I knew then, as I know now, that it was the right choice for both of us.

Does it hurt? Yes. But here's the dirty, little secret - you hurt now, too. And the road you're going down, of being in unhealthy relationships, leads to a lot more hurt than getting clean. When you move forward from this, it won't be easy - but you'll feel good, knowing that you're doing the right thing. And at the beginning it might not measure up, but as you adjust, if you allow yourself to, you'll feel much happier and healthier.

As far as why it's necessary to cut off communcation with her completely...well, I already shared my thoughts on that. You're entitled to disagree. And if I think you're making a mistake, well, you're entitled to make your own mistakes, too. God knows I did, for years. And I paid for it dearly. I'm glad I'm not making that mistake now.

So, is the fact that it pains me to hurt her a symptom of my codependency? I thought it just meant I cared.

TiredOfFalling wrote on 26 May 2010 05:30:


Hmmm....I'm not sure exactly how to tell the difference - where your self, your sense of self, is based on her - that's condepedency. If you're a healthy, strong human being without her who has chosen to be with her - that's caring. "I can't breath without you" is either a slick line or unhealthy. But "you're absolutely wonderful to be around" is caring.

Healthy relationship have two healthy individuals in them. Codependent relationships have two unhealthy people who feel their only existence is in the relationship. For a girl it can be hard to tell the difference. But I think for a guy it's easier.

I'm sure the chevra can clarify this more.

It's perfectly alright to care. But when you;'re caring in an unhealthy relationship, that's bad, for obvious reasons - because it means you're heavily emotionally invested in it, which makes it harder to get out of. It makes it harder to WANT to get out of.

And if you're anything like me, i went out of my way to make my partners feel good when I finally said goodbye. I let them know just how special they were, I complimented them, I wished them all the best, I encouraged them. Partially, yes - it's good to be nice.

However, part of where that came from was my deep-seated need to be liked, to avoid having people upset at me. And that is very unhealthy on many levels, because it touches at what, for many of us, is the root of our issues, and can be the driving force behind our unhealthy connections.

It's not just the desire to be nice - it's where it takes us, too. And if it's taking you to a place of staying with her...well, then "niceness" has gone too far.

At the root of addiction is using the addictive agent to fill the hole in my soul.

In SA most of use use the addictive agents of porn, masturbation, sex and yes love to fill the hole caused by the lack of a relationship with G-d, parents, friends, sense of self and other good things.

When we love others to fill ourselves up we are in reality using them for our own self-centered means.  Of course being human beings it is almost impossible to reach the level where we have no self involved in acts of love, that is where the Avos where holding.

If I was truly at the purest level of giving and chesed than being physically intimate with my wife would be as great a kindness as not being intimate with my wife because she wants abstinence.

So if this woman wanted to end the relationship with you would you be feel good about doing chesed for her by ending it??? 

I don't speak from on high, its just that this is an area where I have a lot of challenges and I think God wants me to flex my muscles on this issue.  As per one of my other posts I am now in a period of abstinence at my wife's request and it is not easy.  I would much rather be giving to her through physical intimacy, but I guess this is what God wants from me now.

Wow, Reb Jooboy - that is truly incredible. I stand in awe of you...truly.

I told the girl that we shouldn't talk for a few days. I know it's not enough but I think it's a start. It'll give me a chance to get some space so I can think clearly again.

Silentbattle - I appreciate your kind words but they are dangerous for me.  One of my major character defects is thinking that I know it all. 

The fact is my life was unmanageable before I got into SA.  Of course some things I knew before but since I have started going to SA meetings I have gained so much knowledge and even more importantly clear vision to see the truth about myself.  What I see is often not very pretty but I have come to understand that I without a true picture of myself I will never get out of the addiction and on the road to recovery.

I think we all have that defect...well, at least i do.

Reb Tired - a few days can be good for you to catch your breath and make your decision...and also so that this way, she starts to realize the direction you're going in. But don't push it off too long, Ultimately, there's no way to make this easy.

Okay my situation is getting much, much worse.
I know I should stop talking to her but how? is there a way for me to block her phone number? Erasing her number wont work because i know it off by heart. Even if I block it there's still email and online chat, and i know that in a moment of weakness i'll want to talk to her. What should I do?