How is one supposed to deal with this nisayon when it involves a real person? I've always just struggled with internet stuff, and i thought the nisayon was over because everything i own is filtered. But now theres this girl who likes me and for the first time in my life someone is willing to please me in ways that aren't allowed. This is totally new to me and i don't know how to deal with it. I've already been nichshal several times. How should I change my perspective in my fight against the yetzer hara to deal with this?

TOF

here is some real advice

its not pretty flowery or cute

and you wont find this in the binah magazina

here goes

RUN FOR YOUR LIFE!!!

WOMEN ARE DANGEROUS!! CUNNING AND VERY SNEAKY!!

RUN RUN RUN

THERE IS NO FUN WAY TO SAY BEAT IT!!

SO SAY BEAT IT!!

AND RUN LIKE YOU WERE BITTEN BY THE DEVIL


sorry its the only proven way that works


the garbage you see on the TV and in the movies

is edited re-re-re-rehearsed and cut and touched up


take it on the chin bro

and keep on truckin!!

bards

Thanks! I have been starting to realize that that's the only way. That women are like fire and I need to stay away lest I get burned. But is there anyway to do it without hurting her feelings?

The addiction is bad enough in its virtual state. You don't need to let things become only more challenging when you start getting involved with real people!

Real connections involves real emotions, and once they're there, they're extremely hard to undo.

I know this.

Give it no thought, shift into gear, and drive like hell!

Don't worry about being polite here. It's your life on the line.

If you need to resort to drastic measures to make sure she doesn't come back, do so!

If you're asking me - and I'm a little crazy with these things cuz I got burned once or twice - feel free to outrightly offend/hurt her.

That's just to make sure she also runs in the other direction and she doesn't remain a nuisance to your sobriety, to your life.

I know I can be a rude and selfish bastard. But there's a place for that too.

For clarity, let me repeat that: don't worry about hurting her feelings! There's nothing there for you.

HEY BARD!!!

whats gotten into you ???
what were you THINKING???

un believable!!!

this is just great!!!

really unbelievable...

I was drinking my coffe when I read your post... and snorted half of it out my nose, laughing so hard!

this is just great - I did not have enough time to finishing my report as it is, and now I have to clean my keyboard and desk!!!

GUARD - can we have a BARDI filter installed???

(in the Odessey - Ulysses the Greek hero, ties himself to one of the posts on the deck of ship when they pass the Sirens (Hmmmm... maybe that is why women/mermaids are called that..because the sirens in our head shoudl be going off !!! ) Ulyssess was afriad of being lured overboard to his death... by their beauty and sweet voices. )

TiredOfFalling wrote on 23 May 2010 17:17:


I don't know WHY I'm reminded of a rather far-afield story. You see, it seems that in the US, goyim date and the Boy's supposed to try for whatever he can "get," and the Girl is supposed to say "stop." In the UK, at least back in WW II, the scene was "upside down" (l'hefech) -- the BOY was supposed to go only as far as he could be trusted, and the GIRL was entitled to rely on his cue.  So, when a bunch of US soldiers went to England during WW II... well, it turns out there were a lot of "shotgun weddings" and worse. The Girls thought "I love you" meant that, and the Boys thought the Girls were paradise compared to home.

A long and irrelevant story, I know, but the thought in my head remains the same. IT IS YOUR JOB HERE TO SET THE LIMITS FOR YOURSELF AND FOR HER. YOU ARE THE ONE WHO WANTS TO LIVE A CLEAN AND CONSISTENT FRUM LIFE. YOU ARE THE ONE WHO KNOWS THIS ISN'T THE 'IT' THAT SHE THINKS SHE'S OFFERING YOU FOR THE FIRST TIME. AND MOST OF ALL, THIS AIN'T THAT THING CALLED LOVE, MATE!

So all those guys who just said, RUN -- well, they're right. It's just that you need to run for HER sake as well as yours. And if by chance we're all mistaken over this (we're NOT THERE, remember?) and she is the woman of your dreams and vice versa, you'll find a way to get together b'tahara and stay that way. Otherwise, it ain't no dream, it's a nightmare.

RUN FOR YOUR LIFE - AND HERS.

(PS: it's clear you knew all this already; you were just itching to hear it from all of us. Mission accomplished. Now, get to work.)

TiredOfFalling wrote on 23 May 2010 17:37:


ok i will answer you two approaches to one question

the first will be the hard way

the hard way

usually starts with a long letter or a meal or a longwinded phone call

you will lie your head off and try to say some kind of man-talk that comes out sounding like

you reallyy are very special (you really were alot of  fun)

but.. but.. (uch I wish I can still have more fun)

i was thinkining (since when do men think)

uhh uh  ( i need a trp door)

u see wel.. long term (she not stupid she heard this before)

can we just be platonic freinds (oops thats a a downgrade)

like text freinds hi and good bye ( and a little fun when im really depressed)



ok there is the easy way

hey we are gonna both in deep trouble heartache and unmanigable lives

soryy and bye

I obviously don't know your full situation. However, if you've read my thread, you know that I can, on some level at least, relate. I was in several unhealthy relationships that felt truly wonderful - and some of them were truly (sorry, bards) with wonderful women. There were even one or two that I could have imagined marrying. Don't get me wrong -  I don't regret walking away for a second; on the other hand, while we need to realize that for us, these relationships are garbage, dangerous, damaging, I avoid using those terms to describe the women I was involved in. Because that wasn't their intention, and my mind can easily argue that that truly doesn't match them - the point is that they were poison for me.

By the same token, these women, who cared about me on every level, were, for the most, very supportive when i explained my situation. I simply told them that for my own spiritual growth, and to focus on my own "for-marriage" dating, I needed to avoid contact with them. They appreciated that, and encouraged and supported me.

Might they be somewhat hurt? Yes, but I think that anything too much more prolonged than that is dangerous, and unhealthy. You also want to be very sure that you're not leaving any doors open for yourself. I'd say it's healthier (for everyone involved, including her) for you to hurt her, than to risk going through another unhealthy chapter.'

In summary - it's tempting, both on a physical, and also an emotional level. It feels good to be wanted in every way. But on so many levels, it's not worth it. Ultimately, there's no trick. You have to be able to walk away. We're all here to cheer for you when you do.

bardichev wrote on 23 May 2010 17:27:


Yes. This is it. Run from Hell. Never mind about hurting feelings because she was machshil you in an extremely serious way. She did not do you any favors!!!

I believe the other replies are also quite similar. Whether they are or not, this is the way to go.

Now.....
if there is truly a reason to expain anything, that maybe can be done later. But first run.

You know that by one of the arayos it says "chesed hoo". Even though it may be or seem like a "kindess" on some level (not a good level, I guess), it is still and  ervoh. I think this is by an achos, sister. Parshas Achrei Mos, which we also lain on Yom Kippur afternoon.

I agree that you need to run. However, I think there's a balance between walking away without thinking about how nasty you were (which I think is a bad idea on many levels), and also truly walking away, not leaving any doors open - and also, depending on the level of the relationship, it can sometimes be safer to explain things (once - not a back-and forth conversation), so she understands why you're saying goodbye. Last thing you want is a hurt girl continuously emailing you. Which, I suppose, can happen anyway, but you want to do your best to avoid it.

Then, block her email address. Erase her number from your phone. Walk. Away. It doesn't feel "nice," but it's the only way to go. It's absolutely necessary, and you've got to ignore the crummy feeling you get.

And finally, keep in touch with us - whether here on this forum, or with someone privately (phone, PM, whatever works for you. There are lots of great people here, but if you'd like to contact me, you can). Talk over how you're feeling, what's happening, etc. Stay focused, and consistent.

This is a difficult nisayon, and you likely need support to get you through it. And that's part of what we're here for.

run - and use the CLASSIC "it's not you, it's me" !!

;D

Which, in this case, is absolutely true!

Silent WE are all saying the same thing

The style and linguistics vary as does each person.

Bottom line we need to make a clean break

Bottom line its never pretty

Bottom line ANY relationship out of marriage (I said relationship not professional alliance as in work etc) is using a person on some level yes it is. Even if it seems casual. The YH is a lot more savvy. And he has toppled rabbis presidents governors golf champs and batrenders and truckers too

Yes we need to take into cheshbon before during and after a relationship that we used and maybe abused someone.

Having said that.  Not always do we live happily ever after. As Rabbi Miller says love at first sight is a big fat american lie!

Yes u broke her heart and it will be on your heart and mind

Sorry you are in the bog leagues. Clean up your mess. Its not fun but its imperative.

B
 

Thanks everybody. I'm seeing the common theme in all of these replies. The only thing is, I really care about this girl and I'm not willing to tell her she smells bad or something really mean. The truth is, I don't even want to cut her out of my life. She's a really special girl. The truth is she did cause me to be nichshal (not maliciously or anything... she has a yetzer hara too. But i still resent it). And I also used her. But at the end of the day we both care about each other.
    Another important piece of information... this girl is going to israel next year to learn in seminary. This is a relief for me, because I won't have the opportunity to be with her any more. And I also hope that maybe when she gets back we can go back to how we were before, when we were dating shomer negia, pre-nichshal. The truth is, as much as I have been using her, if I didn't see any marriage potential in her I would never talk to her again.
    So what do you guys think? Am I just fooling myself?

TiredOfFalling wrote on 24 May 2010 17:08:


Perhaps. Perhaps not. Tell her you both messed up - and for both your sakes that can't happen again - so no more contact. You don't have to tell her she's ugly and evil. But like the chevra, nice clean cut.  After a year, if you're playing for keeps and she's still in your head, find out if she's on the level, then you'll be able to find her. But for now, the cut's gotta be clean. Tachlis? When it's time for tachlis, she's not going anywhere. If you're genuinely interested in marriage then, you'll find some shadchan.