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TOPIC: struggle continues 5907 Views

Re: struggle continues 02 May 2011 20:18 #104928

  • ben durdayah
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dov wrote on 02 May 2011 19:45:

I believe a good method is just to leave one's penis alone.


Which step of the twelve is that?

:D

I don't mean to be a prude, but maybe you could tone that down that sharfe lashon a wee bit? :o




For Dov and the other two guys who care,
My real name really is
 Eli
Like the original Bendy, Ein hadavar talui ela bee




 
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Re: struggle continues 02 May 2011 20:26 #104929

  • ur-a-jew
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ben durdayah wrote on 02 May 2011 20:18:

dov wrote on 02 May 2011 19:45:

I believe a good method is just to leave one's penis alone.


Which step of the twelve is that?

:D



If I had to guess I would say it would be Step 2 "Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity."  Because when a person masturbates, in essence he is saying:  this is my god and he asks this god of his to restore him to sanity by making all his problems go away (at least for the moment).
Help free Sholom Rubashkin by giving him the zechus of Shemiras Eiynayim.  www.guardyoureyes.org/forum/index.php?topic=2809.0
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Re: struggle continues 02 May 2011 20:57 #104930

  • ben durdayah
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I was being facetious...

If I understand what it says on page 64 of the White Book in the proper context, it is actually part of step zero.

E
For Dov and the other two guys who care,
My real name really is
 Eli
Like the original Bendy, Ein hadavar talui ela bee




 
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Re: struggle continues 02 May 2011 21:24 #104937

  • ur-a-jew
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ben durdayah wrote on 02 May 2011 20:57:

I was being facetious...


I know.  In a way so was I.
Help free Sholom Rubashkin by giving him the zechus of Shemiras Eiynayim.  www.guardyoureyes.org/forum/index.php?topic=2809.0
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Re: struggle continues 03 May 2011 14:36 #105006

  • StrugglingGuy
You are in effect saying that we must have a zero tolerance policy. Sounds nice to say that, but the whole point of wanting to m**** is wanting to touch. So it is the same thing basically- but we all know that it does not work to say "Don't m******".
That is laughable.
C'mon Dov- You gotta give me something diff. than that
you're also saying: "I can withstand the urge to touch"- isn;t that putting oursleves in the driver's seat, which you say will not work-?
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Re: struggle continues 03 May 2011 15:19 #105010

  • Dov
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You are missing me. I never said you or I could withstand the need to touch, did I? All I said was that we cannot afford to do it so we cannot do it any more.

But we can't, if we are addicts.

So that is what surrender and the steps are for, for me. "I can't, G-d can, so let Him" is the entire program. The ingredients are honesty, humility, and faith - all things we do not have. But we can learn them from others and they are given to us as a gift, period.

So, no. Zero tolerance is the only way, but zero tolerance to what? Mainly to shame, lust, lying, and pride. We gotta learn those things and that takes time....then it is a gift and we deserve no credit for getting a gift.

...repeating myself, sorry...
"Off the 18-wheeler and fine on this tricycle!", "I do not particularly care exactly which "lav" suicide is. I'm not interested in it for other reasons...and you are probably the same."
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Re: struggle continues 03 May 2011 17:48 #105034

  • StrugglingGuy
I agree. But I think the central point is to surrender before we get into bed, bec. then it is too late. But then there is the free choice we seem to have to touch or not. I have touched many times. Will surrendering allow Hashem to automatically remove that desire? If not, then it seems that however much I live for Him- fighting to stay shomer, davening 3 times, lerning, focusing on school work- does not seem to equal the ability to withstand those one minute temptations . sometimes I am able to stop but most times i cant.

But I agree with you- I need to internilize the notion that I cannot afford even one touch- instead of the feelings I sometimes have which are : I can't help it, I'm single, it's too hard not to...
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Re: struggle continues 03 May 2011 20:25 #105059

  • StrugglingGuy

K9 does not block some inapproporiate things on wikipedia
ok im getting off this computer for a while
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Re: struggle continues 03 May 2011 21:21 #105071

  • Dov
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Before I go to bed, if I am worried about lusting or wet dreaming or doing something that might damage my precious sobriety, I pray to Hashem. The way I used to pray (that did not work) was: "PLEEEESE save me from a wet dream tonight! You know how much I want to be tahor and holy for You tonight!!"

Of course, stupid tefilos are not answered as we like, and those ones were quite stupid. They felt well-meaning, though, and I did cry, after all...

But c'mon. He (yisborach) is not blind and dumb: If I really cared that much about kedusha, then why was I having so much faith in the bimbos and so desperately chased after their images so often - and with a brenn (hislahavus), a predictability (hasmodoh), a privacy (hatzneya leches), and focus (kavonnoh) like no other. Hmm? If I really wanted to be a kodosh and cared even a bit more about His kovod than for mine, then why did I find it so impossible for so many years to just open up to people who could really help me about the exact nature of my problem even though it had reached ridiculous proportions?

"I just can't go into a room of fellow perverts - someone might recognize me!" This is our craziness. And I had it for about ten years, too, so I do not look down at anyone for it now, either. But it truly is a pathetic beis avodim.

If people knew how true "we are only as sick as our secrets" really is, and how to safely let the cat out of the bag and with whom to do it with...they'd be smashing down the doors! Liberation - finally. But no - "it doesn't fit exactly with how I understood the Messilas Yeshorim, or my 12th grade rebbi, or whatever...nu. Does their own compulsive schmutz use and unzipping of their own pants make a whole lot of sense to them? What high standards we all have as addicts...

Sorry, I got carried away again. What was the point again?

So when I surrender and pray now, it goes something more like this: "Hashem, I want you to please give health and happiness to Freida/Janet/shprintza (I use their real names befeirush) and protect her (and her and her) and her children and family from tzoress, from cancer, sadness, injury, and poverty. Help guide her to learn of You better than I know you, and help her come to know that all the beauty in her life is from You so that she will really have a relationship with You. And in the same way, help her have only real, safe, and genuine relationships with all people. Protect her from bad influences and from costly making mistakes in her life. Thank You so much, I love you and please give me all those brochos as well, so I can be useful to You and your people and come to know You better, too." Then I say Sh'ma, Adon Olam, smile at Him a little (Hashem is my Friend), and lay down to sleep. If I can't fall asleep, I read Lord of the Rings for a few minutes (or sometimes a nice sefer) and plotz.
 
If it is not sincere at all, then I do not say it, for He knows the truth. But I do care for strangers, as evidenced by the fact that I would rush to call 911 if I witnessed anybody fall down unconscious and bash their face on the ground ripping their lip with their teeth and bleeding. Blood gets me concerned - for anybody. That proves to me that I do care about anyone, even the shikseh in the supernarket or in the picture that I 'like so much'. So I daven for her, by name.

Running away from the lust in fear is silly. It gives it much more power. If I already have her in my mind and cannot just push her out, then the best thing for me to do is admit it, face it, and use her real name (unless it is a poisonous lust-name that is obviously fake) and daven for her, indirectly surrenderring my lust for her that way. I do not even have to ask Him to take away my lust for her - we do not really lust for someone that we care for, especially after we come to face their humanity. These women are mothers, sisters, daughters. Not objects. Love kills lust. Especially with the wife. The more lust I have, the less lust will control me and vice versa.

Many times I have repeated the prayer, "Hashem (G-d, Tatty, whatever), whatever I am really looking to get from her image, let me find it in You instead." And I trust that eventually He will, in His time. That's a surrender, too. A surrender to the truth. It works. Especially if I call a friend up and say these same tefillos to Hashem sometimes, on the phone - say it to Hashem while my buddy listens. Awkward, sure. But it is worth it. No one will laugh me off the phone - I will not die from doing that. If it is real, then it is real, period. Do we believe in G-d, or not?

If I touch myself for self-pleasuring, I am making a mistake and only I am the loser. For me, surrendering is not a thing I can do in a vacuum - it is part of a perspective on lust and on life. It is part of a constellation of behaviors that I do for my recovery one day at a time. I am either consistent and take action - or it's partially fake. Gotta admit that to G-d and to people if I want to improve in that. When is the last time you heard a yeshivah bochur admitting to others that is is not really sure that there is  G-d listening to him, or that he is not that serious about the fact that G-d can really help him out, or admitting to a group of his friends that he feels G-d does not want to help him that much? That's OK for normals, but not for us. What are we afraid of? Facing the truth is assur? Is it?

True, it may grow slowly over a long time, but how much pain do we want to take before it gets unbearable?

Hope this makes some sense. Sorry about the megillah...going overboard again...
"Off the 18-wheeler and fine on this tricycle!", "I do not particularly care exactly which "lav" suicide is. I'm not interested in it for other reasons...and you are probably the same."
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Re: struggle continues 16 May 2011 22:49 #106092

  • StrugglingGuy
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Re: struggle continues 17 May 2011 01:29 #106105

  • Serene smile
Not sure if it's been said b4, but the Yetzer hara, doesn't have a yetzer hara blocking him:...    He's
%100 full steam ahead.. %100 of the time...

Which only shows how great it REALLY is when we are matzliach..
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Re: struggle continues 19 May 2011 17:35 #106378

  • StrugglingGuy
looked at some crap while taking a study break. unprotected comps
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Re: struggle continues 19 May 2011 21:57 #106417

  • Dov
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It's not the computer that needs the protection...

(but so excellent that you are writing all this stuff...ashrecha, SG!)
"Off the 18-wheeler and fine on this tricycle!", "I do not particularly care exactly which "lav" suicide is. I'm not interested in it for other reasons...and you are probably the same."
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Re: struggle continues 20 May 2011 19:17 #106509

  • StrugglingGuy
well once i find myself in a secluded area i have to know that crap is just a click away for me.
i cant put myself in that situation or else how can Hashem let me heal?
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Re: struggle continues 20 May 2011 20:30 #106512

  • Serene smile
FYI: our complete and entire existence as 'b'nay Yisroel', the 'children of Israel' describes our very existence...

How did Ya'akov get this name 'Yisroel'?..

'Ki sarisa im  elokim v'anashim..'

'Because he wrestled with angels (spirituality) and men (physical world)'

Our entire experience is defined by a 'struggle'

With friends and real happy avoda, it is a MOST rewarding 'struggle' deserving of the greatest smiles and happiness..

We always are guaranteed the end of that very same verse..

"... Va'tuchal". (Even though we wrestled) .."And you were victorious"..

(I wrote this standing on line for Shabbos food.. :-). Hope it's ok)
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