Struggling guy I feel guilty that I'm getting all this wonderful advice from Dov on your expense. Mazel tov on the soon to be engagement. Continued hatzlacha.

Thank u U!
NP

Confusion.

I m'd last nite.

  I also sent this to my pal- mac.

  I mstrbtd last nite.

  When those couple moments come before I 'know' i am going to do the sin, I have had thoughts of : Hashem- I 'know' I am going to sin now because I want to sin now, please help.

  So I ask Hashem to help- because I dont even want to stop.

  It has not helped- at least in the sense that I stop m'ing...

  am i making progress or not?

You are surely making progress in some respect, simply because you are shining some light on your problem and being more open about it. But...

Mind you, I am a powerless and hopeless loser against lust and temptation. And yet I am sober today (only because it finally beat the hell out of me).....and I suggest to you to consider dropping the entire struggle in G-d's hands, not yours at all. Just for today. Never asking for him to keep you sober for any longer than just this day - even on Yom Kippur. Period. Not fighting and not struggling with lust any more - just struggling for being his kid. Letting Him take care of you and letting yourself trust Him.

You may be making progress, but is that all you want? Get yourself and your success or failure the heck out of His way (and your way) and learn how to shift your focus onto your real life whenever the dumpster of fantasy, obsession, and sex with self starts to smell like roses again. Just today.

And this "just today" thing is not a cute trick to make it easier. It is the only way it can ever work cuz it is all you and I will ever have. 

If you insist on increasing the honesty as your view of progress, then I suggest you meet your "pal-mac" over lunch a few times so he knows you better. Then try to start calling on him to admit "I feel like crap about something right now," or "I want to follow that woman in the supermarket," or "I want to unzip my pants," - for that is where your progress needs to go: from openly sharing the sad aftermath - to sharing the scary present. That is a beginning for showing commitment to your staying clean.

You like?

ya , i hear- i might meet up with mac soon if he passes thru NYC, but he isnot in new york most of the time so it is hard. i just tried to start a YU grup but no one has answered yet....

lets  paint a picture. its 8:40am. Roomate is gone already. I am tired and I hit the snooze buttons a couple times. Then I feel the familiar urge once again.....

so then - for the next couple SECONDS I think to Hashem- OK, help. even though I am getting ready to do the act!

.... and then I do it. Then I clean up, wash my hands, use sweet smelling spray, and move on with my day- of learning and

Let us talk LMasseh for once. If Dov could stop the tape at any time during the above scenario and add in some advice as what I should (TRY) to do, I would appreciate it.  Are these couple seconds of asking Hashem to help for the next couple seconds what u are saying to do? If so, then I am 'holdiing' by them. If not, please advise.

I like ur philosophical thoughts but I am not sure what practical steps they exemplify

im talking a lot thru gchat with mac right now so lemme share my thoughts

we all want to m. that is why we are on the site. now, if i feel that i want to m, i do not want to call someone to even say that i am going to m. I dont remember to call someone. I just want to m. bec. it feels good and i usually do.

so for me at least, it does not seem to work to remind myself to do something or call someone the second before

i like the approach of asking Hashem beforehand like in davening (in the yehi ratzon or in shm. esray) to help. at least then it is not a tefilas shav, bec. when i daven to Hashem a second before i mstrbt, it douznt seem to help. or maybe Hashem is just giving me more time.

Hey I have an idea. Is thinking about my issue for an hour staright count for my hishtadlus in this area? I hope so

You asked, so I am putting my 2 cents in:

I think that spending an hour thinking about your problem is the worst thing you can do and completely silly, too. We all need to learn how to make the problem road-kill - and live in the solution to our problem: Real life (with the Real G-d, and with the real people in it, and with all the real facts about ourselves, of course). The fantasy has to go, if we want to quit.

And that takes some time and practice.

We cannot think ourselves into right living. We can only live ourselves into right thinking.

That is all I really need to remember. Everything else is (important) commentary.

ok so bak to the scenerio: what do i do in that situation?

i guess u might say : get the hell out of bed which is what mac said. but the whole reason im on here is bec the yh says ok just m now and then ull get up. so its not that easy.

ive thught abt the taphsic method also.

StrugglingGuy wrote on 04 Apr 2011 02:23:


The second before is WAY TOO LATE.  If you're honest with yourself, you can usually tell LONG before when you're heading towards Mast*etc.  It starts an hour before, a day before, sometimes 2 weeks before.

And THAT'S when you can call someone because you're not close enough to M yet to feel like you're forcing yourself to stop.

--Eye.

P.S.  Listen to Dov--thinking about the problem is the worst thing for us to do.

It's not that easy, you say. Well, that's certainly true. It is not that easy to do stuff that does not come naturally. In your case, when the idea of lusting comes up, perhaps almost anything that comes naturally may be ill-advised. That's not easy.

If you really feel you cannot afford to keep doing it, then why stop? I'm not a rabbi. Maybe they can tell you why to stop. Heck, there are tones of reasons people here have pointed oput why "we must not spill seed"...and yet they themselves still do it when they really, really want to.

No, I am not criticizing them, for I am powerless over lust, no shayloh, no looking down at anyone by me, even while they are masturbating. I love you even then, for that's wher I could be. And Hashem loves you right then, too. Though it really is a pity...

So if you need to quit, then you will start to call people and talk with them about normal stuff instead of thinking about lust and masturbation. I have done that many times. Just call out to the guy down the hall when I feel I am about to burst cuz I want to get drunk with porn...and ask him how he is feeling today and how he feels about his job, for example. I did that many times at my work when I looked at the dirty magazines all over the place for too long and got lust-crazy. Hey - plunging ourselves into real life, especially someone else's with even just a molecule of genuine caring for just that moment - that has saved me in some of my very worst moments.

I have also asked G-d, "Please Tatty - whatever it is that I am really looking for in the masturbation or in that woman down the hall I want to stare at or in that porn over there that I feel I HAVE to look at or I'll just die - please let me find exactly that sweetness and comfort and beauty in You. And if you could make it in the next few weeks that'd be extra nice...thanks for helping me get over my desire to do this stupid thing, today." I say this calmly, not with fists stupidly shaking in the air - for He is G-d, not I - so He does not need to do this, and I have no way of forcing Him to comply and 'be nice". It's a free gift for no reason, that I ask for. And I expect that He will do it for me, period.

This tefillah may not be the best thing for it is also selfishly oriented, but sometimes I may need that approach too, for I just have to be selfish - I am still a big King Baby, you know. Nu.

It is good to be sober today.

eye- i dont find it that way. Rather, I get the urge literally moments before I act. So right now for example, I dont feel any urge to lust anhour from now, or a week from now, etc. That is the issue.

dov- I am able to live in the real world- davening, learning, chatting, working, etc. etc. for at least 90% of the freaking time!!! That is what is so frustrating- the YH's advantage is that even when we live our lives toi the fullest, without any thoughyts of lust- for 90% of the time, that is fine with him. He only has to be successful for like one minute every couple days for me to fall and sin.

  So while you guys say - it is impossible to stop seconds before I act- even when telling God, "Yes I will do this in a second, help me!".... I might actually agree with that. But the problem is that living my life to the fullest before and after the time of action does not seem to stop me from mstrbtng in those moments in between.

I guess you have a real problem. I remember those days, myself. I could be exactly like that right now, and if I could afford it, I would!

Can you do a small thing to extend your sane-time just a few minutes into your danger zones. Just a few seconds, even, and I bet the resistance will rear up like an angry wave - and thereby be revealed in all its goofiness to your seichel.

See what you come up with. It can't hurt, and I am really curious...

StrugglingGuy wrote on 07 Apr 2011 16:53:


To clarify, it's not an urge to lust that I feel for days or weeks.  It's that build-up of all sorts of negative feelings, particularly fears and resentments.  I think THAT'S the issue.  It's pain, and it builds up, and eventually I feel that I need to act out to relieve that pain, to cover it up.

--Eye.