No Briut, we don't doubt his sincerity. I'm seen this a few times on the forum. We're talmidim of Dov; when we see a guy wants to use the Torah as the ground zero reason to stop - we don't think he's going to be so successful. It has to be because of what the action is unto itself. What it does to him - even if it were 100% mutar- like alcoholism. It's a paradigm shift; is this about me or about God? Because if it's about God, that because he said it's assur I won't do it even though I waaaaaaaaaaant it sooooooooooooooo muuuuuuuuuuuuuuch - he doesn't stand a chance. It has to be - do I really want this?

thanx guys and a gut vokh! if you can tell me anything which can help don t hesitate!!!!!!!!

Briut

He wrote "I'm only asking bec. I feel you can't struggle with this uness you know the gidrei haissur" that is what we were objecting to. We were not trying to question anything and we did not intend to offend (Nor did we).

Briut wrote on 05 Feb 2010 20:24:

Dear Briut - If we could actually say that knowing this would necessarily make an iota of difference in getting someone to stop for good, I'd promtly shut up. But I do not believe it is so in many cases.
In fact, when you write that Torah (and by extension, recovery/t'shuva) is not based on blind faith, but on knowledge, I want to respond as follows: (so I will ;D)

Of the following two choices, which is more like "knowledge" and which is more like "blind faith"?

1- what the p'sukim, shulchan aruch, gemorah or zohar tell me I must not do,
(based on my acceptance of Torah misinai, emunas chachomim, [and ruach hakodesh in some cases])...

or,

2- the experiences - each of which I had: of being so wrapped up in my porn and masturbation (or my heiligeh struggle not to use/do it) that I live a life where even my ruchnius is all about me; watching my wife cry her heart out when she sees that I have a much closer relationship with my ever than I have with her (sorry folks); and getting my face mashed into the shame of my servitude to these embarrassing and pathetic behaviors I do over and over, without recovery.
I don't need any faith to suffer. I just need to not recover.

Furthermore, when the Torah tells us that teshuvah (per RMB"N) is within our reach, it doesn't say it's in a book, at all. It says all we need la'asos is what is in our mouths and in our hearts. Our own experience - if we really see it as it is unvarnished - will lead us to teshuva.

But if "faith" is the sole virtue you crave...g'luck!
Love (really!),
Dov

dov wrote on 08 Feb 2010 01:33:


Well, Dov, you've spoken well. And of course #2 is the ikkar. End of discussion. Almost. But I'd say that some Yidden can live on 0% #! and 100% #2.  For folks like me, it's 10/90. And for some others, it's maybe 50/50.

You might see in your experience (and I have basically none at all) that #1 is nearly always a distraction from #2. Fair. My only question was whether asking for a little bit of #1 destroys the sincerity of someone who's also looking at #2.

And in the case of our original post-er (with my apologies for getting things off-track here), I'm just hoping we can all be a little dan l'kaf zchus before we assume he's looking in the wrong direction.  I think we've judged him favorably. Including -- especially -- you.  You're just hoping to focus his thoughts on what's "important." Which is a loving thing to do. So, folks, post on.