i just wanted to know exactly the gdorim of this issur, besides the problem of  ולא תתורו 
(hirhur).And is the case of er veonan (yehuda's children) a reference?(it might be slightly different since they did it on purpose not to make tamar pregnant).
i m only asking cause i strongly think one cannot struggle with this matter while not knowing exactly what s wrong with it.( i mean lefi  hahalocho)


thanx for the replies on my previous post, it gave me a lot of chizuk.
But I d like to tell you a little more about myself ( answering silentbattle's request).
i have always been viewed as a erliche yid. i never fell in that pit until last year while  following secular studies. At that moment, i was alone, away from my family and needed an internet access for my studies which required a lot of time and were very stressful.
The first time i fell, my whole body was trembling as if a stranger was entering it.
I immediatly thought it was connected to my studies(i couldn't learn anymore after several years in yeshiva gegolah).But I couldn t do anything to avoid it and didn t have enough time, even for a heshbon hanefesh! 
Currently, i m learning in university, away from my dear friends and my family. I often feel very depressed because of my loneliness.I  now understand very well the posuk:
לתאוה יבקש נפרד
I tried a tons of times to do tshuva and never did better than 2 weeks clean(thanks to gye last month). I begg rachmonus from Hkb"H, may I return to his heliger torah !!!!!
thanks everybody for your precious help!

Dear Tshuva,

See Nidda Daf 13 and Shulchan Aruch Even HaEzer 23.

Most Poskim seem to hold that it is an Issur d'Oraysah.

Check out the Kitzer shulchan aruch. He writes that it is the most severe aveirah! Hard to believe its the most sever and only derabbanon.

hatzlacha!

Dear tshuvayid,
If you agree that it's ossur already, and that looking at porn is ossur as well, exactly what difference does it make if it's 'only' an issur derabonon. The sifrei kaboloh are clear regarding the seriousness of the issue, regardless of halocha per se. Is that relevant to your struggle? Maybe.
But what difference will it really make to you today what's wrong with it?
That is my question to you.
Best wishes from another yid, for you to be free of this problem today and Hashem will bless you for your honesty in coming forward with this painful matter. But please consider my question, chaver. Thanks.
- Dov

dov wrote on 04 Feb 2010 22:47:


CAN I REPEAT WHAT DOV JUST SAID

IN PLAIN NEW YAWKISH

I MAKES NO DIFFERNCE

O'RAYSAH RABANAUN

IS NO DIFFERENCE

(THAT WHAT DOV MEANS IT'S NOT RELEVENT TO THE STRUGGLE)

I WILL BE MASBIR A BISSIL MORE YESHIVISH

YOUR STRUGGLE IS NOY

KI-ILLOOO IF I OPEN A LIGHT ON SHABBOS AND IT EITHER BOINEH LOIT THE CHAZON ISH OR HAAVARAH LOIT REB SLOIMAEH ZALMAN

NOW WHAT IF I OPN THE FRIDGE AND THE LIGHT IS ON,AHH ITS NOT ON IT WILL ONLY GON ON WHEN I GET THE HEINIKEN

UH UH ICHH HERR  AHH
UHHH

B

I simply consider undertaking a genuine tshuva starts by understanding the mekoros and ikarim of these issues. It is not only MY opinion but many rishonim and baalei hamusar hold like this.
you can get rid of an issur and a bad habit by shaping your mind to understand and automatically being aware at all times of the harm caused by our deeds.

No sefarim here.    
See tosfos Harash who relearn the sugya of "SHlodsha Mishamshim Bimoch" because he holds there will never be a heter to me Motzi Zerah, since "mavei mabul laolam"  (Yevamos think 13b or 14b-see top tosfos, which is very complicated to get right, then learn-up the tosfos harash). Oh and tos will hold it's also assur for women to do 'simmilarly'. And he holds they aren't allowed to be "Mischameim" themselves, even to check to check if they are tamei tumas zavah.

Also, simply start with the TUR SH"A, and work your way through the nosei keilim. Chochmos Adam, ummm.... And the tzad haKaballah in it is even more chamur. Even though you may not have a minhag to be noheig everything 'al pi hakaballah', it still happens, and you will still see the ramification of your actions after 120 (if CV you havesn't done teshuvah)

Also, obviosly, see taharas hakodesh to get a broad scope of these 'inyanim'. And realise that this is the nissayon in our dor, the ikvesah dimeshichah. See my post from R Pinkus zt"l (in the beis Medrash, my thread).

I like your approach, I used it when learning the sugya there in yevamos.

Oh and if you want a POWERHOUSE of a mareh makom, in histaklus, I would send it to you privately. however, shogeg atu meizid doesn't apply to something mefurash in the torah.   So see YD 157, in the long shach (he's coming off the rama), about some chiyuvim of yehareig velo Ya'avor.

tshuvayid wrote on 04 Feb 2010 23:00:
You are talking about what the sforim and ba'alei mussar say about teshuva. You know this already. Then why is the struggle so hard if you know this already? Hashem doesn't want this for you. So don't do it. You are a precious child of His and His personal project. Right? Each of us is.
So why do it? I'm not talking about what's right - I'm asking you about what's with you. Not what's with the Torah. You is what matters because the Torah is not looking at porn or masturbating. Get me?
Let's not play games, neither of us.
Teshuvah is b'ikar about what you have done. What does teshuva have to do with not doing it any more? I know, I know...it's supposed to affect the future...then what's your shayloh?
How about not doing it any more for two months. Then talk about teshuva.
Not so simple?
I'm not talking about addiction here - just about you.
What is the difference in the nature of the issur as far as stopping and staying stopped is concerned, if you agree it is not what your very best Friend ever wants for you?

I wish I had someone ask me this very question 20 years ago. Oh, how I wish it.
Hatzlocha sweet yid!

Dov's the best!

Basically Azivas Hachait is the real first step. That is really what "all the seforim say", or you can go right to Rabainu Yonah's Igeres Hateshuva where he says start over today.

Thank u so much dov ! but besides this question, i need now an advisor as far as my situation is concerned
(as described at the beginning of this post).

Ok
Ok
Ok

Pleez Trust me

DOV and BARDS

Say the same thing

I spaek about my experience

The YH let's you do
ANYTHING

He let's u do teshuvah too

He let's u learn all halacha and mussar

Yes he does!!!


But he has u in the bag


Listen to dov!!!

B

tshuvayid wrote on 04 Feb 2010 21:40:


Please read principle #10 of the Attitude Handbook called "Fear of Heaven can’t stop us, but it can PUSH us"

Shemirah, please email me your powerhouse

I once went through this as well; most hold it's a d'orayasah, either Halacha L'Moshe MiSinia, or Bitul of Piryah V'Rivyah  - Err and Onan are not a Lav, merely may be the gedarim of the lav (or bitul aseh). I finally went throguht the otzar haposkim about this.

Trust Dov, though. Drop it. It's destructive. It eats up your soul. It destroys any capability you have to connect, or to focus on the needs of another human being, or self-respect or sellf control. Freud writes that masturbation is the mother of addiction. Addiction means death; living, maybe, as if you were on a respirator...
trust us, we know.

Get clean, then we'll learn the lomdus...

Im just gonna echo what me3 said. So i guess that makes me me4! :D :D :D :D

If you want to put everything in perspective here it is. Everyone is maskim that the first step is azivas hacheit. No argument there. So the question now is HOW do we do azivas hacheit?? And the answer to that IS NOT by knowing the severity of the aveirah!! Want proof?? Take a poll right now on GYE and ask how many of us knew;know the severity of the aveirah and how many of us did that itself get us to stop. If you could get three i would be utterly suprised. So this is where Rebbi Dov and Rebbe Bardichev come in. Although its nice to know all these things, IT WONT GET US ANYWHERE!! We need to learn and find out a mehalech for our recovery. All the while realizeing that this is a chelek of teshuva in it of itself. Azivas hacheit! But they are saying lets not put our focus there. As is proven so many times over this hasnt gotten many anywhere.

So therefore my dear holy chaver TY, lets try and find a mehalech that works. And to that you have all the wonderful people on this site.

Hatzlacha and have a most beautiful shabbos!!

Hey, guys, I know I'm piping up fairly late into a discussion, but thought I'd share that there is one question burning in me.  It's that the OP is trying to find the exact Torah sources for what KIND of 'bad' it is, WHERE the makor for this fact is, and HOW broadly it applies, etc.

I don't see ANYTHING suggesting that he would refuse to get clean if he doesn't find adequate and satisfying (?) answers.  I only see a guy who's asking intellectual questions.  And, frankly, I'm viewing some of the comments as being "blind faith" rather than "Torah lomdus" responses.

In my view,  the Torah is based ideally on knowledge/learning and not on blind faith.  (Otherwise, I'd let some priest tell me what to do and forbid bible reading....) 

If the guy were saying "I'm not doing tsuvah until I hear something compelling," then maybe I'd hear a little denial and understand why some of the comments seemed to jump down this guy's throat for being a denier of the problem if not of Hashem himself.  BUT if the guy just wants some Q&A for when his Yetzer comes around and says, what's the big deal, then I would take him at face value.  AND, if he wants to say, I want to know for MYSELF because it will give chizuk to my existing efforts because I love Hashem and His ways, then I would stand up and cheer.

Bottom line:  I love the sources found here (I hope to look up and go through some of them at some point - thx) and admire the ones who took him at face value rather than questioning his motives. Unless I'm reading either the OP or the flavor of the comments incorrectly (always possible given the limits of plain text)....