I'm still not clear - where would he find an environment more suited to his problem?

Well for starters - not in a dorm setting.
He can sleep at home and go to an in-town yeshiva.

Somewhat better...but he's still facing nisyonos every day, and without the support that being in a yeshiva offers.

I'm not saying what's right and what's wrong, that's for someone much wiser than me. I'm pointing out that there's no simple answer.

After months of 'observing' from the sidelines, I just registered so I could add my two cents here.  (FYI: I'm a G-d-fearing-Yid with a great wife & family, and also with a nearly-daily dialogue with my gay desires.  Write if you want more details on me, but right now the point is really all about YOU.)

And you're doing great to raise these questions.

Someone who wants to learn Torah enough to take on these conflicts is a tzadik. Period.  Sticking your head in the ground (whether in or out of a yeshiva) would be cowardice.  If you feel at risk in the waters of Torah, how much more so on the dry land of our mainstream culture.  (The obvious mishnaic reference of the fox to the fish, you'll notice.) 

I have one terrible, awful, frightening piece of counsel for you, though:  you have GOT to find da'as Torah who can help you navigate through this one.  Yes, your own Rosh Yeshiva or R"M, or one from another yeshiva.  Someone you'd otherwise never want to tell.  Be sincere and not afraid: anyone who would consider kicking you out of their yeshiva for this would, in my opinion, be an idiot and a sinner beyond description.

The R"Y might not know what he SHOULD do with your situation (and plenty of them seem to do something less than optimal), but he'll surely know that he SHOULDN'T keep you from a path of Torah.  (No, it does not put other bochrim at risk, any more than "straight" lusts put at risk the women working at the Yeshiva. Duh.)

I've read accounts about how a R"Y might ask such a bochur not to join the crowd a the mikveh on Erev Shabbos, or other practical steps to minimize the challenges.  During my own BT days at {xxxx}, one guy was told he could stay but couldn't "approach" any of the guys at _THAT_ yeshiva.  This site also has a letter from Rav Feldman (R"Y of Ner Israel) that I found particularly enlightened. But whether the taiva is for gay p**n or straight p**n or expensive cars or whatever, you should keep in mind that H' loves you and wants you to stay close. 

Keep swimmin' in the water, buddy - it's the only way to make any progress.  If you stick your head in the ground, whether by leaving your Torah study or by assuming it will go away with marriage (Ch'V on both counts!), you'll be missing a big opportunity to grow beyond your wildest imagination.

Just one opinion from an individual who has faced similar challenges.

Thank you, Briut, for sharing your wisdom!

Please join the forum, post about your struggles, so that we can help give you chizuk, and so that we can learn from you!

Hey Briut, thanks for the post. You really enlightened me there, and that was brave of you - even with the anonymous thing.
Feel at home here, we're just a bunch of jews trying to do our best to keep the Torah, and we'd love to hear from you more in the future.
What makes us succeed is people like you who care to help.
See you around!

Kollel Guy wrote on 19 Jan 2010 21:17:

Concur.

Thanks for the warm welcome, buddies.  I'd like to keep this thread all about the original post-er, since he was the one seeking info.  I'm happy to be there for him if my own insane experiences are relevant to anyone else's.  (I'm so new that I don't know how you'd post a private reply or make some other connection.  I'm open to that, however, if you're even still reading this thread -- I'm guessing some guys come by, post, and then run in the other direction before seeing what they've wrought.)

As to my own "sharing," I suppose that's fine with me, too.  Should I start on the "introduce yourself" forum or post a thread of my own or...?  I'll count on some senior post-er here to give me the lay of the land (and yes, I read the F** manual already - I just don't love the thought of putting it all "out there" on a newbie post unless I know it's really the right thing to do).

briut wrote on 20 Jan 2010 22:41:


You'll do just fine here. Have you met Rage yet?

You can post wherever you please. Just start your own thread, it s good to have somewhere to go.

fightingyid,

being as you started this all, i will address you.
i, as some might already be aware, also deal with similar issues.
i also am not entirely maskim with the going to speak to a rav idea.
depends on if the rav can be trusted and unfortunately, these days, it isn't so easy to tell.
your friend also may not want to be dismissed from the yeshiva or be given the wrong advice by accidentally speaking to a knowledgeable Torah personality, who just may not know that much about same-sex attraction.
there are a lot of people out there who have been dealing with this and those links that guard posted are great.
another one is peoplecanchange.com and i have some more numbers for people who can help. if you're interested, PM me.
on the sites, there is also plenty of contact info if desired.
if you have any other questions, please feel free to contact me via email or PM.

sorry guys, but leaving yeshiva is not an option.
taking some time to work on the issues at hand, sensible...
one of the best things for this guy is to have support from other guys.

Briut,

welcome...

Guard just set up a new place specifically for the rest of the forum to get to know you a little. Why not start your thread there? (in "introduce yourself")

I know this is an old thread...
But this is the first time I hit this thread...

I had personal experience in this:

For part of my teenage years I had very strong SSA...
I was sure I was totally messed up and bad....

When I confided to one of my Rabbis re. this he maintained that for teenagers (hormones are supper active) in an all Male environment... who have no interaction with girls, that it is quiet common for the sexual drive to be channeled towards the only people you have exposure to: Males

P.s. a year or two later the SSA faded away into oblivion....

When I am sometimes asked regarding a shiduch if the boy is good looking....

I sometimes can't give a good answer since It simply never even registered with me whether or not his looks are pleasing...

If asked about a girl....
well..... I'd probably be able to answer...

P.p.s. I never acted out on it at all.....
But it did make it very difficult to concentrate on anything....

Tried-123 wrote on 12 Mar 2010 07:36:

T123, thanks for reviving the thread!

It's very timely for me now: I know a young man in E'Y, learning several years, about to come to US and "start dating." A few folks know (directly or indirectly) he's facing this challenge (SSA, homosexuality, whatever it's called). He plans to ignore it and start into shidduchim as if marriage would cure things.

I'm sad, worried, empathizing, angry, etc.  I feel as if, even at a young age, someone has to "know himself" before entering the parsha. (Don't folks on this Forum agree that marriage doesn't solve every sexual issue??!!)

I tried gentle outreach; it backfired big-time. I'm scared (or perhaps ignorant) what if anything to try next. I can't lead a horse to water, but this guy could be at risk to himself and others (future wife/kids) if he doesn't know himself.

How can a bochur know if it's just a "phase" when surrounded only by guys and when he's got some serious self-reflection to do?  I don't know. Maybe those of you who were once there and now feel differently have views to share? 

Anyone else willing to take the "risk" (?) of jumping in?

In my case I was extremely sheltered and had no exposure to any women at all...
Also I was in a very bad place emotionally needed something to hang on...

Perhaps the above is why it faded once those factors faded...

I don't know how or if you can help this boy...
But if he's not overly sheltered his SSA is probably not just a faze...

Hatzlocha.....

Are we talking complete SSA, with no attraction for women?