Rage ATM wrote on 05 Jan 2010 19:49:


The Mishnah Berurah usually calls him the Graz (Gaon Rav Zalman).

imtrying25 wrote on 05 Jan 2010 20:10:


You may be right.  It also may be that they assume it's a Davar Pashut.

Rage ATM wrote on 05 Jan 2010 20:14:
No quite simply for the reson that i dont knoow what it is! :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

And i have this pic of you handing out diapers on some corner in the city........................................

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Rage my wife wants to know whats so funny?!? :-\

What i saw yesterday is so true, she says.

Your addicted, she says.

RAGE your killing me!

.................and the knicks lost again.
hey wait the knicks dont play in september
good question but they still figured out a way to lose

IT seriously, my heart skipped a beat, I really can't believe you.
That's mamish like saying you never heard of R' Akiva Eiger.

IT, Kedusha - It could also be that people today are very arrogant. We feel that we know better than rabbis. Never mind the whole "even if they tell you left is right," etc. We don't think that a major life decision is something we should ask about - WE know what's best!

I once dated a girl who told me that you go to a rav for halacha. You NEVER should go to a rav for hadracha, or hashgafa - those, you figure out on your own. I refrained from asking her why she reads any seforim - after all, it's just a bunch of rabbis sharing their opinions on what proper hashgafa is...

1) To some extent, yes - but part of that is making sure that my haskafos make sense together.

2) People are perfectly capable of coming up with completely krum hashkafos. And if oyu have a rav to check them with, you can realize your mistake. If not, you can live your whole life with a perspective that's krum according to all shitos (now THAT'S being a machmir!).

OK, it's ALWAYS better to get a 2nd opinion from an outside source. WHOEVER you ask will have an advantage that you don't. You are very susceptible to being biased without even having the faintest clue of it.
When you ask a question to a rav, this is one of the main advantages.
ALSO - He probably is significantly older than you and likewise wiser.
ALSO - He has probably had a decent amount of experience with people asking questions on your topic, and has seen the outcomes.
ALSO - He probably has the right priorities in mind if he's a rav.
ALSO - Yes there's the beracha concept.
(Rage this one is special for you)
ALSO - If many people come to him, regardless of who he is, he gets a Siata Dishmaya to answer people correctly.

Kollel Guy wrote on 05 Jan 2010 21:33:
KG, as was apparent by my response of course ive heard of him, just i didnt know he goes by the name "alter rebbe". I guess theres new things to be learnt every day.

silentbattle wrote on 05 Jan 2010 23:14:
SB i think you have a very good point. But what i think Rage is trying to say is something like this; My ROsh Yehsiva always says over a story about a young man who would say, " i dont make a move without asking my rebbe first". To this my R would say, "he missed the boat". A person is supposed to pick up the hashkafos from his yeshiva and then use them on his own with his own head to work his way through life. Of course we should be asking here and there but we need to grow up and make decisions are our own,based on the hashkafos our yeshiva has ingrained on us.

Rage your surprised my RY said that, eh??

Absolutely, IT - but first of all, I think that the natural tendency is for us to always think we're ready to move on before we actually are (unless we have a fear issue). I know people who had hashkafos that were krum (certainly by the value system of their own yeshiva), yet refused to ask about it, because they "had already picked up the hashkafa of their rabbeim. This, on a major issue, at the ripe old age of 20.

Secondly, I think that everything has it's own level. As I pointed out, some issues are more complex than others, and some have so many different variables and things that make us "nogei'a b'davar" (how do I say that in english?) that it's close to impossible for us to be sure that we're making a balanced decision. As we get better and better, and learn more (about torah, and ourselves), we can handle more and more complex situations.

silentbattle wrote on 06 Jan 2010 15:51:


Touching the thing...or more accurately, personally invested in the matter, and therefore predisposed to judicial bias :D

Right  ;D :D ;D :D

That's kinda my point 

So I guess we'll stick with "nogei'a b'davar," for now?