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Hatzlacha in Full Time Learning

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TOPIC: Hatzlacha in Full Time Learning 3832 Views

Hatzlacha in Full Time Learning 03 Jan 2010 13:16 #41330

help613	Hey Guys Just something that has been on my mind for a long time alredy. I have been in Beys medrash for about 4 years now and had absolutly no hazloche in learning, i hardly know how to learn a blat gemore never minde toisfes by myself. Is it possible that some ppl r just not made for learning and that i should leave yeshiva and go home to work ?
	Last Edit: 04 Jan 2010 18:58 by DeletedUser14625.

Re: 19 year old bochur. Is it only me? What is the way out ? How do i make teshuva ? 03 Jan 2010 13:31 #41336

kedusha
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help613 wrote on 03 Jan 2010 13:16:

Hey Guys

Just something that has been on my mind for a long time alredy.
I have been in Beys medrash for about 4 years now and had absolutly no hazloche
in learning, i hardly know how to learn a blat gemore never minde toisfes by myself.
Is it possible that some ppl r just not made for learning and that i should leave yeshiva
and go home to work ?

All Jewish men are cut out for for learning on some level, but it's well-accepted that not everyone (or their wives) is cut out for a life of Toraso Umnaso, which often leads to feeling depressed that they're not succeeding in their learning.

But don't make your decision in a moment of weakness or depression - discuss it with someone who you respect.

Just as an alcoholic needs to avoid that first sip, a lust addict needs to avoid that first slip.Slip today? No way! ;)Fall today? No way, Jose'!

Last Edit: by brightowl38.

Re: 19 year old bochur. Is it only me? What is the way out ? How do i make teshuva ? 03 Jan 2010 14:18 #41348

silentbattle
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I'd point out a few things...one is that very often, being involved in issues like the ones we're dealing with can prevent us from succeeding to our full potential - now that you're working on it might be the best time to push forward!

Personally, I don't necessarily see myself as the type who's going to learn forever - but I do feel that it's important to do your best to gain the skills necessary to keep up your connection to torah.

Definitely talk it over with a rebbe - do you have a rebbe that you feel close to and trust, who you feel can give you an honest opinion based on your needs and abilities?

The important thing is to figure out how to learn so that you can enjoy it. This might mean getting a new chavrusa, or joining a different shiur that's geared towards beginners.

Last Edit: by renewedbison92.

Re: 19 year old bochur. Is it only me? What is the way out ? How do i make teshuva ? 03 Jan 2010 16:46 #41380

ano nymous Current streak: 1 day OFFLINE Platinum Boarder Posts: 656 Karma: 1	Uh oh... I see censorship in my crystal ball.... I'm sorta with you on this one Rage, but I think we're outnumbered on this forum. We should just admit our powerlessness :D
	Last Edit: by Arrepentido.

Re: 19 year old bochur. Is it only me? What is the way out ? How do i make teshuva ? 03 Jan 2010 17:00 #41384

imtrying25
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Rage ATM wrote on 03 Jan 2010 15:17:

we all must learn torah but there is so much torah out there im sure you can find something you enjoy...torah isnt only gemarah and tosafot...

in terms of learning versus working, lets see now, god said:

אֲרוּרָה הָאֲדָמָה בַּעֲבוּרֶךָ בְּעִצָּבוֹן תֹּאכְלֶנָּה כֹּל יְמֵי חַיֶּיךָ. וְקוֹץ וְדַרְדַּר תַּצְמִיחַ לָךְ וְאָכַלְתָּ אֶת-עֵשֶׂב הַשָּׂדֶה. בְּזֵעַת אַפֶּיךָ תֹּאכַל לֶחֶם עַד שׁוּבְךָ אֶל-הָאֲדָמָה

but what does god know? f him and his stupid curses...were smarter than god...but then the mishna says:

אהוב את המלאכה, ושנוא את הרבנות

but what does the mishna know? f the mishna...were smarter than them besides they were just a bunch of woodchopper and water drawers, after all, didnt the rambam say:

לעולם ידחוק אדם עצמו, ויתגלגל בצער, ואל יצטרך לברייות, ואל ישליך אדם עצמו על הציבור; וכן ציוו חכמים ואמרו, עשה שבתך כחול, ואל תצטרך לברייות. ואפילו היה חכם ומכובד, והעני--יעסוק באומנות, ואפילו באומנות מנוולת; ולא יצטרך לברייות: מוטב לפשט עורות הנבילות בשוק, ולא יאמר לעם, חכם אני וגדול אני וכוהן אני, פרנסוני; ובכך ציוו חכמים.

גדולי החכמים--היו מהם חוטבי עצים, ונושאי הקורות, ושואבי המים לגינות, ועושין הברזל והפחמים; ולא שאלו מן הציבור, ולא קיבלו מהם כשנתנו להם.

but were smarter than those morons...we dont need to work! lets sit and learn all day...that way we wont even need to wait for mashiach...we'll have our own geula without god...afterall,

לא נתאוו הנביאים והחכמים ימות המשיח--לא כדי שישלטו על כל העולם, ולא כדי שירדו בגויים, ולא כדי שינשאו אותם העמים, ולא כדי לאכול ולשתות ולשמוח: אלא כדי שיהיו פנויין בתורה וחכמתה, ולא יהיה להם נוגש ומבטל

but who needs machiach? f him...were smarter...

instead, lets put our wives to work...let them go out there and be around other men all day long...should we help with watching the kids and with housework? of course not! we're men not mexicans! when the wife will get home she'll do it because we're learning...yeshiva tuition? someone that works will pay for my kids afterall i am doing all of klal yisrael a favor by learning... paying for my kids education is the least they can do! we're tzaddikim! we learn all day!

Chill out Dude. Im not gonna say much because i dont want start a whole discussion on the topic. Feel fre tp pm me if youd like. But i will say try and not be so closeminded like us kollel guys and think that wetre always doing something wrong. Maybe some of us have a good point. Maybe.

Last Edit: by Meyer.

Re: 19 year old bochur. Is it only me? What is the way out ? How do i make teshuva ? 03 Jan 2010 17:09 #41389

silentbattle
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Wow, I think that might be a sore point, Rage...

I'll address the first point right off the bat - after all, god said it, right? R' Dessler addresses precisely your point - he responds that it's a curse - so obviously, no one would want to be more involved in a curse than absolutely necessary, right?

I'll respond to the other points later, if you like - if you'd give me the sources, that would make it easier.

I would also point out that the rabbis today presumably know all these sources, and yet support the system of learning in kollel. The torah very clearly tells us that we're supposed to listen to the rabbis of our generation, and not just assume that we know better than they do.

As far as women going out to work, the ones that do so are the ones who feel that learning is worth sacrificing for - I know plenty of intelligent, and yes, even open-minded girls who chose to look specifically for guys who are learning, and want to learn long-term. And they consider it totally worthwhile to support that.

Last Edit: by healingzebra03.

Re: 19 year old bochur. Is it only me? What is the way out ? How do i make teshuva ? 03 Jan 2010 17:31 #41409

habaletaher
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help613 wrote on 03 Jan 2010 13:16:

Dear Help613,

I can't tell you for sure as everyone is different, BUT I can tell you that I had no enjoyment in my torah learning for year, and was about to walk away wholesale, until two things happened simulatneously.

#1. I started being shomer negiah, and walked away from a world in which my mind was filled with GIRLs, GIRLS, GIRLS.... The Torah has a hard time getting in when it has to fight for space right next to Chani, Shani, Chaya, Leah etc... and all of them in various states of wardrobe malfunction...

#2 I found a limud that I was interested in, it was not necessarily what my yeshiva was doing, but I set learning it as my goal and I worked on it every single day... It was a hard and log process, but when I made that siyum it was one of the greatest moments of my life, and ever since then torah-learning has been a serious part of my life, and a great source of joy and inspiration...

Hatzlacha,
Haba

Last Edit: by brighthippo92.

Re: 19 year old bochur. Is it only me? What is the way out ? How do i make teshuva ? 03 Jan 2010 18:17 #41426

imtrying25 Current streak: 16 days OFFLINE Platinum Boarder Posts: 3010 Karma: 2	Right on haba. couldnt of agreed with you more.
	Last Edit: by Dovid5459.

Re: 19 year old bochur. Is it only me? What is the way out ? How do i make teshuva ? 03 Jan 2010 18:28 #41429

ark321 Current streak: 141 days OFFLINE Fresh Boarder Karma: 0	I think all this is off the point, just a little dont you agree? Maybe start a new topic...but I can't see how this is going to help our 19 year old bochur!
	Last Edit: by שםאנונימי.

Re: 19 year old bochur. Is it only me? What is the way out ? How do i make teshuva ? 03 Jan 2010 18:38 #41439

imtrying25 Current streak: 16 days OFFLINE Platinum Boarder Posts: 3010 Karma: 2	Maskim arkster. I hate hijacking!!
	Last Edit: by Frummother24.

Re: 19 year old bochur. Is it only me? What is the way out ? How do i make teshuva ? 03 Jan 2010 19:06 #41457

imtrying25
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the way i deal with these things, i just let them glide by. I dont delve on them. Dont tell myself oH idiot you shouldnt of looked and now your gonna suffer etc etc just let it glide right by. Yeah you made a pit stop in my brain but im not gonna be gores you. Talk to the hand. Basically i just allow it to glide. Ok i said that about 10 tens im 2 lines but lemayseh thats how i deal with it i just let it gl.......................OK STOP IT ALREADY. Chazarahs good but sometimes you gotta just let it gl................ ACHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Last Edit: by jd1985ny.

Re: 19 year old bochur. Is it only me? What is the way out ? How do i make teshuva ? 03 Jan 2010 19:09 #41460

theOne OFFLINE Platinum Boarder Posts: 3026 Karma: 0	WOW.help613. WOW. that u had the koichos to stop watching the video!!!!!!! reb bardy would say GEEEEVAAAAAAAALDIGGGGGGG!!!!! i dont think that i had the strength to do so...
	Last Edit: by 5678.

Re: 19 year old bochur. Is it only me? What is the way out ? How do i make teshuva ? 03 Jan 2010 19:24 #41461

bardichev

GEVALDIGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG

YOU ARE YOSEF HATZADDIK

REGARDING LEARNING

LEARN SOMETHING EASY

LEARN IT AGAIN TILL U MASTER IT
THEN MOVE ON

WE LOSE SO MUCH CHEISHEK FROM GETTING LOST IN THE HUGE PICTURE

YES U ARE CUT OUT FOR LEARNING
EVERYONE IS

BUT.. BUT.. YOU DONT NEED TO BECOME THE NEXT REB AKIVA EIGER RIGHT NOW THIS SECOND

LEARN A MESECHTA OF MISHNA

TAKE MESECHTA SUKKA

YOU CAN COMPREHEND IT

YOU KNOW WHAT A SUKKA IS

YOU WILL MASTER THE FIRST PEREK

YOU WILL FEEL SUCH SWEETNESS IN TORAH

YES WE CAN!!!!!!!!

Last Edit: by adventuroushippo62.

Re: 19 year old bochur. Is it only me? What is the way out ? How do i make teshuva ? 03 Jan 2010 19:29 #41463

bardichev	theOne wrote on 03 Jan 2010 19:09: WOW.help613. WOW. that u had the koichos to stop watching the video!!!!!!! reb bardy would say GEEEEVAAAAAAAALDIGGGGGGG!!!!! i dont think that i had the strength to do so... WOW AM I SO PREDICTABLE?? I WAS TYPING THOSE WORDS HEY KUTAN,IMT25 !! WE GOT ANOTHER GUY ON THE TRUCK!! GEVALDIGGGGG
	Last Edit: by sunnydolphin57.

Re: 19 year old bochur. Is it only me? What is the way out ? How do i make teshuva ? 03 Jan 2010 19:56 #41468

7yipol
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My heart goes out to that poor kollel guy (and his family), but Im really impressed by your reactions; both running to try help him, as well as turning it off as soon as you were able.

Turn the tables on the yh. He wants you to fall because of what you saw, bringing yourself down, as well as the other guy. After all, you saw these inappropriate things because of him, so not only would you get an aveira, but he would too, for being the catalyst! Gevald!
Why not use the opportunity to daven for both of you! This is the exact opposite of what the yh wants, and exactly what Hashem would love - v'ahavta lere'echa kamocha"!

Hashem is addicted to you! Feel His hugs!"Sheva yipol tzaddik VKUM"

Last Edit: by renewedswan68.