A jack the jew is in bold @Human being is not bold.


1. but I believe that most of us can control our urges with all the consequences of acting on them. If you cant, or have logical reason to believe you cant, of course please do not put yourself in a compromising position.
As I stated before, Halachically, even someone who actually pulls through and controls his urges but puts himself in a place where he will be tested, is considered to have sinned. On this Chazal said "Al Ta'amin B'atzmecha ad Yom Moscha" and "Ein Apatrapus L'arayos"
HB-Yup. I couldnt agree more.

2.Problem is, when we can't share our feelings/desires and get reassurance that we are normal, it causes us so much unnecessary anxiety. 
The phrasing I would use is "when we can't share our feelings/ desires and get reassurance that there is help to be had in the struggle"     HB -We are going to have to agree to disagree here. We are also normal. (ie not out of the norm)

3.The Jewish world I believe is unfortunately I think its wonderful that they are acknowledging the truth that many normal people are challenged with pedophiliac FEELINGS 20+ yrs behind the non Jewish community on this. We are going to have to agree to disagree here.
Therefore, the non-Jewish world is well on its way to normalizing pedophilia ..........   HB  -I think its wonderful that they  are acknowledging the truth that many normal people are challenged with pedophiliac FEELINGS.  ............ and actually denying treatment to many who suffer from different forms of mental illness based on this ........HB-Well if feelings that are being experienced are not out of the norm, unless a person will hurt themselves or someone else, I see no reason to treat anything. What are we treating?........... I don't like to get political and I don't agree with  a lot  of what Ben Shapiro says, but in his show this Friday www.podbean.com/ew/dir-9deft-15d3576d he covers the topic pretty well

4.To your second point. "Normal" and "regular" I believe, is defined by commonality. One cant say "the world isn't the norm" The norm is what is common. Here's some notes to look up on the commonality. Numerous studies show various attractions are regular. I investigated some of the studies and I want to give you a TRIGGER WARNING. I put in a spoiler to make my post more read-able.

In other words anywhere from 1-9% of people are attracted to children and the numbers of people attracted to teenagers is way higher. Even if we say its just 20% total. We are talking  over 66 million people in the US (66,380,000). Almost 2 million people in New jersey (1,853,400) and over 25 thousand people in Lakewood, (27,614). 1,872,800 in Israel, 7,650,000 in Canada 26,000,000 in Mexico 11,196,000 in England and over 1.6 billion worldwide.   

 I happen to agree that {in most cases} they are not natural but rather nurture derived attractions (emotional neglect/trauma).
But who cares were it comes from? What I care about is the commonality. Commonality is what makes something normal, not its origins. Please go ahead and average out the percentages of people attracted to all the "categories" i brought above and then add them up. There are also numerous categories that aren't brought. But even so, the categories above are sufficient for a 20% number. I am not talking about gender theory. The topics overlap but that is not what I'm discussing here. Id love to discuss it in another thread though. 
A.I would appreciate a source for the 20% number..........HB -Please go ahead and average out the percentages of people attracted to all the "categories" I brought above and then add them up. There are also numerous categories that aren't brought. But even so, the categories above are sufficient for a 20% number..........In regards to the pedophilia numbers, my filter will not allow me to open the links, but much of the theory and work in this area was done by people with a specific agenda in mind, and much of gender theory was actually originated by a pedophile and child abuser with VERY dubious numbers (i.e. generated by sample groups of prisoners in general, and convicted rapists and pedophiles in particular.) ...........       HB   -I am not talking about gender theory. The topics overlap but that is not what I'm discussing here. Id love to discuss it in another thread though. 

B.My definition of "Normal" may be different than yours. I define normal as sexual attractions brought about through normal puberty, not through commonality, which is highly variable and often depends on societal pressures. For example, rates of suicidal ideation are EXTREMELY high for trans kids and teens, however the suicide rates for such kids are skyrocketing in mainly liberal areas.......HB-that is not my definition of normal. My definition of normal is  "not out of the norm" in other words "not unexpected and not out of the ordinary" I do believe I have the right definition here :-)

5The people who don't have the challenge of being attracted to a forbidden genders/age groups/fetishes and don't know how common it is and think its bad/unhealthy/wrong, will never gain the trust of anyone who has this challenge to share their challenge with them. Why would anyone share their challenge with someone who will tell them "your unhealthy" Your unwell' "get help quick", so the people who think its uncommon stay blissfully ignorant.   
As someone who has had QUITE uncommon and bizzare fetishes, I would divide between "Bad", and unhealthy/ wrong. No One is bad for having a thought,  However that is different than unhealthy, as thought patterns and processes are often serious indicators of trauma based, neurological, phsycological, or phsychiatric level problems (A Harvard med study funded by NIH in Aug 2019 on the "gay gene" theory based on a sample group of over 500,000 people worldwide actually linked the genetic profile that may cause gay attraction from birth to: higher rates of depression, schizophrenia, and bipolar disorder, lonliness, smoking, and cannabis use. This study was supressed by LGBT rights groups)

HB  -I am going to agree to this whole heartedly. My own personal experience has showed me this is fact. out of the people who have shared with me their struggles, 3/4 of them were bullied. I think bullying specifically has a lot to do with it. I myself have dug deep in therapy and found the many different ways that bullying affected my sexual desires.
Never the less, i don't understand your reasoning here. Yes bulling and all developmental trauma is unhealthy. Why would that make the desires/feelings that are caused as result be unhealthy?  The definition for emotionally unhealthy as far as I know is "something not conducive to life, or ones ability to cope"  Everyone is different. Desires affect people differently. There are so many variables. I don't see any feelings as inherently unhealthy. Feelings desires and attractions communicates to us our needs. Feelings, desires and attractions are Good. Healthy. And not wrong. Only if it is "something not conducive to life, or ones ability to cope", is it emotionally unhealthy. And that is for everyone to decide for themselves, if a feeling/desire or attraction is not conducive to themselves or makes them unable to cope. In my personal journey, it has not hindered my ability to cope, and it is very conducive to my life, my feelings, desires and attractions tell me what my needs are.

I see this perfectionism. So we can dissagree to disagree. I think we all have wierd parts. They are parts of us and must be accepted loved and welcome. If all..........

Human being wrote on 05 Dec 2022 00:28:

You addressed the first part of my paragraph, but not the second. You can’t add the percentages up and get a total because many people have more than one of the attractions listed. Personally I can check off at least 3 boxes.  

On the second highlighted text, i don't understand why calling something "normal" Definition -'"not out of the ordinary/norm. not unexpected"  is any reason at all to ignore its origins and treat the problem. Viruses are the norm yet we treat them. splinters are normal yet we treat them.  On the contrary, only one who isn't scared of his feelings and desires, and is willing to face them, can start understanding its origins and begin working on himself. Problem is, many of us never get to that stage because we are freaked out of going anywhere near our feelings for fear of being "not normal" "creepy" etc. Lets face our feelings. Stare our dirtyist desires in the face and not be scared of them. Then and only then in my opinion can work on ourselves to become better people by controlling those very desires.

On the first highlighted text,  (Maybe even acting on them) I already commented a bunch of times. we are not here to accept actions. We are here to accept feelings. I'm not sure why you're saying that.
(Because if the thought processes are normal, what makes the actions bad?) HB  -God. The law.