Kedusha, I thought it over, and you're right...I still think that many of us are living perverted lives, re: the definition I used before, but WE are not perverts. Not at the core of who we are. It's a temporary problem, that we're all moving beyond.

As far as dating tips, think back, WAY back to when you were dating...you know that everyone likes to discuss their opinions, theories, stories (wish I could share mine here, but the funniest ones are too identifiable. Maybe by the kumzitz version 2.america), etc.

So yeah - I'd have to say both stam, and also davka addict inyanim :D

KG, ditto to silent battle

If I may put in a request.

I know this may sound weird.

But, I find the title of this thread is a bit of a trigger, reading "men with pretty and skinny wives," over and over again--and I'm trying to stop thinking about other men's pretty and skinny wifes.

Can you please change the title of this thread?

Thanks.

  --Eye.

bardichev wrote on 28 Dec 2009 16:41:
Ditto Haba. Im first catching up on this thread now and i think your post was great. Wow.

Eye.nonymous wrote on 29 Dec 2009 11:51:
Yes i agree. We are here for everyone each on his own level. SO if someone feels it triggers it shouldnt be here. Especially when theres money at stake for gye. :D

Eye.nonymous wrote on 29 Dec 2009 11:51:


Eye,

I changed the title of the thread, but not of each individual post, which would have been too tedious.

Thanks for changing it. I'm sorry about the title, I should've realized. I just hope I didn't cause anything Chas Ve'Sholom.

This thread makes me [Moderator's note: word deleted for the sake of those eating breakfast ;)]...Do you realize how demeaning it is for women that you only think of them in terms of their physicality?

we're not objects. We're people.

When we date, we try to see the person within. (Of course, you gotta make sure that you're not repulsed or anything but it isn't such a main point.)

I'm sorry if I'm just not understanding you guys or something. But it really hurts.

TrYiNg wrote on 29 Dec 2009 13:40:
Nobody is saying that women are only worth their looks. It was a question about a lust problem, and if having a better looking wife will be enough to keep that lust under control. The inner value of a woman is not the discussion here, because it will not affect the lust for better or for worse.

WARNING: DO NOT READ THE NEXT SENTENCE IF YOU CANNOT HANDLE A JOKE

Besides, what's worse, men that can think this way about women, or knowing that one day you'll be marrying one?

Theyre sure implying it...Whatever. Forget I said anything.



:D
Duh. If not why would I care??

TrYiNg wrote on 29 Dec 2009 14:05:
Oh... forgive me. For a second I thought you actually cared for us, that our outlook should be correct. :D

I'm going to post this here, and in a new thread...let's move the discussion over there, for now?

TrYiNg - The original question was based on the lust problem. The continued shidduch discussion was addressing a different issue - how to approach one tiny, yet very complicated facet, of dating.

If I go out with a girl, and she's gorgeous, has a great personality, is smart, and nice, but mentions in passing, "oh, and I serve avodah zarah," then I don't think anyone here is giving a "yes" to date #2. If there's a clear hashkafic issue, most guys don't have trouble saying no. Or if personalities clash, and you just don't get along with your date.

Physical attraction, though, becomes more complicated, on a number of levels. 1) you need to decide if it's something that you might see from a different perspective later on. 2), even if you're sure, it feels rotten to say, "she's perfect in every way, but she's not for me because of the way she looks." Honestly, it just feels wrong - even if I know that hashem is telling me that this girl isn't for me (and by the way, although I have strong opinions, I've only said "no" based on looks once, out of...yeesh, a LOT of dates). 3) You need to decide whether you're not attracted, or if she's not the "type" you've always imagined. Lots of guys never realize this distinction.

And also, we need to face facts - although it's far from being being the most important thing, it's still absolutely essential that a guy IS attracted to his wife - and yet, some guys aren't sure that that's "right."

So discussing this, perhaps especially in this forum, can be important.

What you're saying makes sense.
I have not read the whole thread . Certain comments jst got to me ,(sorry) such as ;






What happened to it being about love??

_{I'm gonna have a mega hard time trusting a guy ...}

TrYiNg wrote on 29 Dec 2009 14:40:


The main love comes after marriage, as Rav Hirsch writes regarding Yitzchak and Rivkah (Bereishis 24, 67).

Guys? Should we move this discussion to the new thread I started? I'm posting my next response there...