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A Bad situation= a potentially horrible new idea
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TOPIC: A Bad situation= a potentially horrible new idea 606 Views

A Bad situation= a potentially horrible new idea 04 Feb 2021 00:49 #362671

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I unfortunately have been struggling for the past while. Exactly 30 days ago I made a derision that I had enough! However I had a massive issue; my primary internet device is unable to be filtered (its really complicated and there's nothing I can do about it). I had thoughts about just throwing in the towel and calling it a night/day/week/life. Now as I was mulling it over I thought to myself, who cares?! So what I don't have a filter! I have the willpower and strength to overcome any challenge that comes my way. I already decided (psychologically) that ITS OVER! NO MORE! And I will do whatever I can to prevent or stop a stumble/fall. 

I honestly was expecting a much harder battle as I have had in the past but this was different, I had to change NOW. And with that mindset I started a new chapter in my book of life, a life free of Po** ( I never really struggled with m**********n THANK YOU HASHEM!). And so I started my journey with a real achievable goal of 90 days, in the past I have just stopped looking/watching but never with a mindset of no more and now with this mindset I'M KILLING IT!(TYH!!!!). 

I enjoy surfing the forums and website for chizzuk and found a couple pointers/tips which people view to be a make it or break it in the process of breaking free. One of the most common is making sure you have a good filter. Now I am just speaking off of personal experience and I am still only (only??? lol, I'm so grateful I got here) 30 days in. But I believe that there are people out there that are pushing off the 90 day challenge, as I almost did, since they don't have a filter. All I have to say to them is WITH THE RIGHT MINDSET YOU CAN DO IT!  Its not going to be easy (hey nothing worthwhile comes easy) but I beg of you, please trust me, you got this even without a filter.

(And now a little controversial part)
if you have the power and strength to tackle this challenge without a filter,  I believe you might be better off. Since we are strong enough and trained enough to control of our taivos even if we are put into the worst of situations ( ie around unfiltered devices) since we already fought this battle and hopefully won. Whilst those that fought their battles with a filter will have a much harder time if unfortunately they are in this horrible situation of non filtered devices. 

Thank you so much if read till the end. And apologize for making it seem like this post was just for the ending. That is not my intention at all. 

I hope this post can inspire at least one person.

P.S. if you disagree or have advice for me, please can we have a conversation? I do not need to be correct and I understand what I am saying can be the opposite from the truth. If that is what you believe please let me know so we can come out with full understanding

Thanks again 
 ALLDAY

Re: A Bad situation= a potentially horrible new idea 04 Feb 2021 00:57 #362673

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Question: Is there a halachic obligation to install a filter on a computer with Internet access?
 It is a strict Torah prohibition for a man to gaze – even glance – at a woman who is immodestly dressed, and one is required to do whatever is humanly possible in order to avoid this prohibition. The Talmud says that it is even forbidden for a man to go about his daily affairs in a setting where peritzus is present if there is “an alternative route” available. A man who chooses a “peritzus route” when he has a kosher alternative, is described by the Talmud as a rasha, even if he does not intend to glance at the peritzus violations, and even if he closes his eyes during the entire encounter.

Since it is well known that the Internet is – to say the least – a medium beset by horrible peritzus, one who uses the Internet to go about his business must take every precaution to avoid peritzus. Even a person who has no intention of viewing immodest or indecent material is subject to such sight as a result of an accidental click or a surprise popup advertisement. Therefore, installing an effective filter that could block such peritzus on each and every computer one uses, at home, office, notebook or laptop, is mandatory, and in keeping with the Talmud’s requirement of choosing “an alternative route” to go about one’s business. Thus it is an halachic obligation to install a filter on any and all computers that one uses for his needs. One who fails to do so has chosen to reach his destination via “the peritzus route,” and to incur the Talmud’s epithet for a person who makes that choice.

"If I am not for myself, who will be for me? But if I am only for myself, who am I? If not now, when?"
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Re: A Bad situation= a potentially horrible new idea 04 Feb 2021 02:07 #362679

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This topic has been debated on this forum before. With some here saying that without filters they would be toast, others say that filters creates for them an urge to find a way to break it. Yet others have a balanced approach to create filters that put it at arm's length but not necessarily unbreakable.

I cannot weigh in on the halacic side of the debate, but ultimately we dont need to debate this for very long. Each person will be able to see if their chosen path works or not.

I think all would agree though, that even if you have filters. working on yourself is imperative because without it A) you may chance on a unfiltered device but more importantly A person can lust very much even while being technically clean
My Thread:The Road To Being Honest With Myself (and others:)

My other Thread: My Daily Inspiration

I'm not a slow learner, I'm just quick to forget" - Eli Nash

A bit of honesty and less over confidence might help me - Imperfection

Re: A Bad situation= a potentially horrible new idea 04 Feb 2021 02:40 #362684

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I just like Hakolhevel said cannot answer the halachic question but I do have some personal views on the matter. 

Personally I find a filter very triggering as it will usually end up blocking things that I want to access (many times which are ok and all is needed is to ask for access) however just seeing the block from the filter will often send my brain to places I'd rather not be. 

In my opinion a filter is a tool but not a solution. Every person is different and some may find a filter very useful yet if you use the wrong tool with the wrong person it doesn't help. I kinda look at like regular tools imagine a filter was hammer, it works just fine with a nail but if you tried using it on a bolt it'd be useless you need a wrench. 

Every person is different, and I find that for many a filter may be necessary and can be helpful but it is more helpful when it was there in the first place and a person never found the shmutz. Once we are here like I said it can be helpful but more important is working on ourselves to find the solution, and each person needs to figure what tools work best for them.

Re: A Bad situation= a potentially horrible new idea 04 Feb 2021 14:21 #362726

  • davidt
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Hakolhevel wrote on 04 Feb 2021 02:07:


I think all would agree though, that even if you have filters. working on yourself is imperative because without it A) you may chance on a unfiltered device but more importantly A person can lust very much even while being technically clean

What you are saying is 100% true! Filters are not THE solution, it's just another tool in this incredible battle. If I would rely on a filter to keep me clean, I'd be in bad shape to say the least.  That being said, it is still important to add fences and to heed the advise of our gedolim who urge us very strongly not to use unfiltered devices. 
If someone finds that filtered devices are triggering, they should definitely ask their posek or mentor etc what's the right thing for them to do...
"If I am not for myself, who will be for me? But if I am only for myself, who am I? If not now, when?"
feel free to reach out @  ahavayirah@gmail.com

Re: A Bad situation= a potentially horrible new idea 04 Feb 2021 15:51 #362731

  • wilnevergiveup
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I think everyone agrees that the focus here is working on ones self. The debate is just whether having a filter is an essential tool, or just a nuisance at best or even a trigger.

The majority here sides with having a filter but there is a significant minority that feels otherwise so at the end of the day, do whatever works. 
Check out My Thread and The Truth

(עשה רצונו כרצונך (אבות,ב:ד

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Re: A Bad situation= a potentially horrible new idea 04 Feb 2021 16:19 #362735

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Here are some quotes from people that were/are smarter than me (to say the least)...

Rabbi Abraham J. Twerski,Z"L
It is perfectly possible that while monkeying around with the Internet, you hit a button and there’s a pop-up of an inappropriate scene.
You weren’t looking for it, but it happened. You have exactly 3/10ths of a second to turn it off. And if you wait for 4/10ths of a second, you may become addicted. That’s how severe it is. It’s one of the most powerful addictions. Day after day after day - I get letters and calls from people who say, “what can I do to save myself?” because they have fallen into this addiction and it has taken them all the way down. It has ruined more marriages than anything, ruined families. It’s been terribly destructive.

Rav Shmuel Halevi Wosner Z"L
Surfing without a filter violates the prohibition of ‘Yichud’. There is absolutely no excuse not to have an Internet surfing filter on one’s home computer. Not to do so is to violate the commandment, “You shall not put a stumbling block in front of a blind person.

Rav Yosef Viener, Rav of Kehillas Shaar Shamayim, Monsey
There is no bigger problem facing the individual in Klal Yisrael and communities at large than this. I hate to sound pessimistic – but if you have unrestricted Internet in the house – Internet that is not both filtered and reported, I would say there’s a higher than 90% chance that people have already stumbled in your house. And if it hasn’t happened yet, there’s more than a 90% chance it will happen
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"If I am not for myself, who will be for me? But if I am only for myself, who am I? If not now, when?"
feel free to reach out @  ahavayirah@gmail.com
Last Edit: 04 Feb 2021 16:20 by davidt.

Re: A Bad situation= a potentially horrible new idea 04 Feb 2021 22:34 #362757

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DavidT wrote on 04 Feb 2021 16:19:
Here are some quotes from people that were/are smarter than me (to say the least)...

Rabbi Abraham J. Twerski,Z"L
It is perfectly possible that while monkeying around with the Internet, you hit a button and there’s a pop-up of an inappropriate scene.
You weren’t looking for it, but it happened. You have exactly 3/10ths of a second to turn it off. And if you wait for 4/10ths of a second, you may become addicted. That’s how severe it is. It’s one of the most powerful addictions. Day after day after day - I get letters and calls from people who say, “what can I do to save myself?” because they have fallen into this addiction and it has taken them all the way down. It has ruined more marriages than anything, ruined families. It’s been terribly destructive.

Rav Shmuel Halevi Wosner Z"L
Surfing without a filter violates the prohibition of ‘Yichud’. There is absolutely no excuse not to have an Internet surfing filter on one’s home computer. Not to do so is to violate the commandment, “You shall not put a stumbling block in front of a blind person.

Rav Yosef Viener, Rav of Kehillas Shaar Shamayim, Monsey
There is no bigger problem facing the individual in Klal Yisrael and communities at large than this. I hate to sound pessimistic – but if you have unrestricted Internet in the house – Internet that is not both filtered and reported, I would say there’s a higher than 90% chance that people have already stumbled in your house. And if it hasn’t happened yet, there’s more than a 90% chance it will happen

I wanted to click the Thank you button 10 times for this post but system only allows for one!

Re: A Bad situation= a potentially horrible new idea 05 Feb 2021 03:12 #362778

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DavidT wrote on 04 Feb 2021 16:19:
Here are some quotes from people that were/are smarter than me (to say the least)...

Rabbi Abraham J. Twerski,Z"L
It is perfectly possible that while monkeying around with the Internet, you hit a button and there’s a pop-up of an inappropriate scene.
You weren’t looking for it, but it happened. You have exactly 3/10ths of a second to turn it off. And if you wait for 4/10ths of a second, you may become addicted. That’s how severe it is. It’s one of the most powerful addictions. Day after day after day - I get letters and calls from people who say, “what can I do to save myself?” because they have fallen into this addiction and it has taken them all the way down. It has ruined more marriages than anything, ruined families. It’s been terribly destructive.

Rav Shmuel Halevi Wosner Z"L
Surfing without a filter violates the prohibition of ‘Yichud’. There is absolutely no excuse not to have an Internet surfing filter on one’s home computer. Not to do so is to violate the commandment, “You shall not put a stumbling block in front of a blind person.

Rav Yosef Viener, Rav of Kehillas Shaar Shamayim, Monsey
There is no bigger problem facing the individual in Klal Yisrael and communities at large than this. I hate to sound pessimistic – but if you have unrestricted Internet in the house – Internet that is not both filtered and reported, I would say there’s a higher than 90% chance that people have already stumbled in your house. And if it hasn’t happened yet, there’s more than a 90% chance it will happen

This all may be true, but then again, if we all followed the rules exactly we wouldn't be here in the first place 

That's why I say, at the end of the day, do what works, and the truth will come out sooner or later.
My Thread:The Road To Being Honest With Myself (and others:)

My other Thread: My Daily Inspiration

I'm not a slow learner, I'm just quick to forget" - Eli Nash

A bit of honesty and less over confidence might help me - Imperfection

Re: A Bad situation= a potentially horrible new idea 05 Feb 2021 04:02 #362781

I think if you are able to do it without a filter you are better off, but easier said than done to do it without a filter. We are all different and have different levels of willpower - for most people I think without a filter it could be really hard to get going in the first place because of constant falling.
Think about how good you'll feel if you say no to desire and compare that to how bad you'll feel if you say yes.

Desire is unique in the way that it is never fulfilled -  if you give in the desire comes back even more powerful in just a few days. Telling yourself that its ok because this is really the last time doesn't work because you are just adding new images to your head that will cause future falls.

The Joy of triumph over the yetzer hara is worth the effort it takes to win. It IS worth it! Keep fighting!


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Aiming to be better

Feel free to contact me at evedhashem1836@gmail.com
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