Taharat Yisrael wrote on 11 Aug 2020 09:27:

I don't believe in luck. A healthy attitude, (which you have,) along with discipline and siyatta dishmaya will help us beat this.

Good to see you keeping busy. That's the best way to stay clean, just to live your life without focusing on the lust, rather than fighting it all the time. But when it comes, fight we must.

Is there a specific reason your falls tend to happen on Shabbos? i.e. do you have more time on Shabbos? Are you more bored? Or is it simply the urges are strongest after a week? 

Much Hatzlocha. We're rooting for you.

I think the falls are often on Shabbat both because of it being the end of week(I just convince myself to make it to Shabbat) and because I am often more bored. Even if I can learn or play a fun game I sometimes need to fill up like 5 or so hours. I also have less ways to distract myself(taking a bus somewhere, talking on the phone, watching a clean show etc).

Taharat Yisrael wrote on 11 Aug 2020 11:16:

I was very against napping on shabbos until recently, but if I’m bored and not doing anything then at least I can kill two birdies with one stone and not act out and gain mitzvos for sleeping on shabbos (it is a mitzvah if you didn’t know). I definitely recommend you try it.

I often try to take a nap but I’m not good at napping in the afternoon. Sometimes it’s when i don’t fall asleep that I’m presented with a major challenge.

Hi Taharat Yisroel,

For your first point, about convincing yourself to last until the end of the week, I see where you are coming from. I think the mindset is a bit of a mistake. Its like your doing a 'one day at a time' mehalach, but with weeks. While I don't fully understand the whole mehalach, I know we can't feel like 'I did so well, I deserve to fall.' The outlook can't be falling is a reward for my hard work. I'll last until this day and then I will fall. I think the idea is more 'I'll take next week as it comes. I won't think about Shabbos. I wont act out until Shabbos. That's it. Don't think 'on Shabbos I'll fall.' Just don't cheshbon Shabbos or next week into this week at all. Like this: do I need to fall this week? No. So then I won't. And then I'll ask myself the same question next week.

All the above is much easier said then done, and I could be totally wrong in explaining how to do a one day at a time. There is a thread on it though if ou want to know more, just apply it to your one week at a time. I could also be misunderstanding your mentality as well.

About the second point, its hard to fix boredom. I suggest you plan ahead. Get a book to read for those hours. Maybe, if you have written a list about why you want to change (i.e. those advantages v.s. disadvantages of p&m sheets) give them a read in that time period. Its hard to give exact advice, but if you know to expect the lust at such and such a time, should be easier to combat it.

Much Hatzlocha. Keep us updated.

Thanks for the input! 
I often don’t consciously fall as a reward. I just feel emotionally exhausted after a long week of holding out.
as for an actual list- I don’t think it’s actually necessary. I think things like Cheshbon Nefesh and concentrating on the fact that the urge will pass if I just get on with my life are often enough. btw it’s just m and not p&m as I have a filter- it’s much less scary- can’t really ruin my future. As for Olam Habah 1. Dosent motivate me as much. 2. I honestly think that I’m pretty well off סך הכל. Its one Aveira and it’s not even a כרת. It’s something that everyone struggles with and slips from time to time. I hear that it’s even a מחלוקת ראשונים if it’s דאורייתא or not(the act itself).

Hi Taharat Yisroel,
Emotional exhaustion? I hear that. The fight is hard.

Kares. Deoraisa. Derabanan. Personally, it doesn't really matter. I agree that we can't view ourselves as 'bad' people if we slip and fall. But nor are we doing the right thing. The one catalyst for growth, the only way to grow, is to never feel 'I'm O.K. where I am. I'm pretty well off. I'll tackle this, but if I don't get it under control, not so important right?' That sort of attitude will never work.

If you look in a Kitzur Shulchan Aruch, he calls this aveira of m  'the worst aveira in the torah.' The poskim speak out this is not really to be taken literally - its not actually the worst aveira. But because its so easy to slip into, and so hard to get out of, the Kitzur Shulchan Aruch was trying to keep people away. Trying to scare us. Sounds pretty bad to me.

You mention 'can't really ruin my future.' I dunno, I doubt our future wives will be thrilled at the idea of just m either.  Could be you are right. It doesn't give us a warped sense of intimacy that p does. But later in life I'm sure we'll look back at this time, and if we didn't break free, we will regret it.

To sum up, I'm not saying we should walk around all day moaning sighing and screaming gehenom! Suffering! etc etc. What I am saying is if you have no motivation from olam hazeh, and no motivation for olam habaah, then what is your motivation? Because if we kind of wanna break free maybe, we'll never succeed. Wen need a solid motivation. Why do I want to break free? No, why must I break free!? And then with discipline and siyatta dishmaya, we'll get there.

I hope I understood you right. Let me know.
Much Hatzlocha.

Im Tevakshena Kakasef wrote on 13 Aug 2020 11:51:

Beautiful! 

Correct. I don’t actually think that it’s ok as I’m an motivated and haven’t given up in years. It’s just after a hard week of battles the desire for personal growth and seld-control often wear away. One big motivator is when I just think about the fact that it’s something lowly, demeaning, and unnecessary for my wellbeing and that there are many productive healthy things to do instead. Baruch HaShem Keeping busy in the army through Shabbat and much of next week. I’m going to be with friends as well. Baruch HaShem, I’m day 6 and going strong!

Hi Tharat Yisroel,

I know what you mean about the motivation wearing away over time. Fighting the yetzer is grueling, difficult work which really makes us tired and less motivated.

There's a quote I once read. 'You don't need motivation, you need discipline.' I believe the idea is as follows. It starts with motivation; i have to want to change. And I have to really want to change. But then, even when we really want to change, sometimes we just don't feel the motivation. We feel drained, tired and fed up. And then we chas veshalom, act out.

This is where discipline comes in. We have to stick to our set tasks / goals even when we no longer want to. Or at least, even when we no longer feel like we want to. We don't want to,but we do it anyway. The motivation ebbs and wanes, but the dicipline we have must never change.

I write this like its easy, but I'm working on it myself. Even as I write this, I'm kind of under an attack of lust. I know that I want to be good, but I almost don't care. And that's when I have to apply discipline - I will fight and stay clean, no matter what.

All the best. Lets do this together.

Good point about discipline. I’ve heard from a friend though, that chochmah is more important meaning Tachbulot etc. Bihatzlacha in holding out- how many days are you clean for?

Oh I see 8 days. Way to go!

@Taharat Yisrael

Your phrase "A long week of holding out" screams at me from out of the page.
It strongly suggests you are "Dry Drunk."
i.e. You are using will power to stop falling, but inside you really want to experience the temporary physical pleasure of falling, to use the pleasure as a stress relief and a reward.

I advise that you focus on the horrible feeling after you fall, and deeply embed in yourself that the fall brings more uncomfortable feelings than nice ones.

That you need to be nicer to yourself, to get more enjoyment from life.
So that you do not need to 'Hold Out" for a "Reward", but can breathe every day.

Please think of the positive life and enjoying life, and take each day one by one, each hour by hour, doing something nice every hour.



Also:

Try HALT

If you feel any of these feelings, or any combination of them, then stop immediately and gather your thoughts.
They put you at risk of falling.

Hunger
Anger (resentment/jealousy)
Lonely
Tired

Thanks for the advice. I do need to work a lot on changing my perspective. So far 8 days and going strong( had a wet dream but not counting those as falls just like I don’t count Hirhurim). I work night shifts for now. Those are hard as I’m tired during the day but still find it hard sleeping during the daytime. Makes me feel unproductive and resentful at times. I’m trying to push till Wedsday where I go home for about a week.

A true soldier of body and spirit. Does the Sayeret Matkal have any openings?