Kedusha wrote on 10 Dec 2009 23:04:


As to how babies are born only after marriage, or how a child can look like his father, one can give an accurate answer without sharing details that the child doesn't yet need to know. I explained that when a man and woman live together as husbands and wives do, such as (sometimes) sleeping in the same bed, this makes it possible for them to have children.  There is no need to get into further details at a young age.

When one child asked what's the whole purpose of being able to become a Baal Keri, I explained, without further detail, that it makes it possible to have children.  Interestingly, the child didn't want to hear any more!

I know of a (probable) addict was addicted to mast*, yet when he married, was shocked to hear what was expected of him! He was totally innocent as to sex, had never seen porn in any form. He just knew that mast* 'felt good' and nothing beyond.

Interestingly enough, he became very makpid on shmiras einayim, and always keeps his hands above his waist.

I like kedusha's approach... It's an interesting compromise...

Also, when my children learned about the concept of "Giluy Arayos" or "being Mezaneh," I explained that it means when a man and woman, who are not married to each other, act in a very immodest manner.

Ykv_schwartz wrote on 11 Dec 2009 11:30:
Ok Ys i think your missing a extremely fundamental pint here. NOONE AND I MEAN NOONE IS SAYING THAT IF WE EXPLAIN TO A CHILD THE BIOLOGY BEHIND HOW A CHILD IS BORN THAT HE WONT GET INTO PORN! Firstly, what i said was, that if my child asks me AFTER i have explained to him the basics, how we have children i may go ahead and explain it to him. Just so he shouldnt have to figure it out on his own. Because i feel, and so do others, that when we looks for answers on his own it will probaly only bring to bad things. I also never said that if you explain to a child that it is normal to start feeling atttractions to women and so on, that this will save him from wanting and being into porn. What was said was this. If we have a choice, either not to explain to a child all the "funny" things that are going on in his life and be as honest with him so he can always feel comfortable to come back and speak to his parent and also realize that he is as normal as everyone else in the world, and  realize that this does not mean theres something wrong with him, all at the risk that he we may be actually inticing him to find out more, OR, to just not say anything to him or tell him half truths i feel that the first choice is better. Is this gonna stop him from being into porn?? Of course not. But if he has that in him he was gonna get into it either way so whats the difference if i would of said something to him or not. We are discussing risks here. Risking telling the child and what might come out of that or risking not telling the child and what might come out of that. Once again i feel the latter risk is much higher and has much more to lose.

Now about the masmid thing. I knew as i was writing it that someone was gonna right something like that. But i wrote it anyways so that people would be able to get my point. My point wasnt that because his mother told him he became a masmid. And my point wasnt either, that because he was a masmid obvously hes not into porn. Neither one of these things were my point and there would be no way i would know that either. I was just saying and trying to bring out that the risk of telling a child isnt as big as some people are making it. And the risk of not telling the child is bigger. Thats it.

kanesher wrote on 11 Dec 2009 11:32:
I couldnt agree with you more K-Nesh. ( even though your not coming to the kumzitz ) If we can show our sons that its a normal thing and that it somehting that could be holy or not i think were better off this way.

I hear what Kedusha is saying. It seems that people are getting a little carried away with what i wrote. Notice i wrote it in parethesis. Also notice that i wrote IF my child would ask................... I feel its important that if the child would ask to be as truthful as possible so you can build that trust with your son and only reap benefits.

I copied a lot of the discussion on this thread and I sent the question to Rabbi Twerski. I hope he has time to read it and respond. I'm sure his insights will be valuable.

Ano Nymous wrote on 11 Dec 2009 11:36:

Mine gave me the speech when I was almost 19, which was 7 years late for me. I wasn't mad at him at all, I just felt bad for him. It demonstrated for me how far removed he was from understanding the things going on in my life. On the contrary, it made me more accepting of everything he did while raising me, which at the time I probably felt resentmet towards.

By the way, I think all of you have to realize that we're having this discussion between a board full of people, almost all of whom would have benifited from being spoken to earlier on. There's still a whole majority of the population who don't share our problem, and for most of them, a speech like this would very likely have been opening up a can of worms. Most of our children will be from that majority.
I'm with guard. Sheltering is not an absolute solution, but for most cases it works. So unless you have some way of knowing which type your kid is, you should probably go with the majority.

Sorry Kollel Guy but i still disagree. Even if a boy is in that majority i still think its worth taking the risk.


Im not sure what this means. Honestly i think the most important thing in our lives is to fully understand our children. I honestly think this is more important then learning , or working, or whatever you we may be doing. Our job as parents is to do everything possible to get a full understanding of our children. I once heard from a chashuve person who has yediyos in these matters that one of the things this generation suffers from is; that parents dont know how to be parents.

imtrying25 wrote on 12 Dec 2009 21:21:

100% You are correct that the ideal state of a parent - child relationship, should be one in which the parent understands where the child is holding in terms of these inyanim. But practically speaking, very often our children surprise us - whatever the reason might be.
Listen, you might just be an amazing parent who has an unusual perception of whats going on in childrens minds. For me, and probably most others however, relying on intuition is dangerous.

Of course we cant rely on intuition. Thats why i wrote that we have to make this the ikkur focus. To learn our children. To study them till we get an understanding of them. Do whatever it takes to get as good as an understanding as possible. Then make decisions based on that.

Speak to you again when you get there 

My shver told me a funny story on the subject:
A 10 yr old girl approached her father respectfully, and asked him with curiosity "Totty, where do we come from?"
Realizing that he had a shas ha'kosher on his hands, he sat her down, and caringly and lovingly told her 'aleh gitte zachin'
A 1/2 hr later, when he finally finished reviewing with her all the valuable information, she replied casually "Oh, because my friend Shaindy told me her family comes from Monsey"