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TOPIC: The Workout Room! 28837 Views

Re: The Workout Room! 09 Jan 2017 01:46 #302569

  • thanks613
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What kind of "spiritual help" are we talking about here?  As frum jews, I think it's easy for us to say "yes I want to grow spiritually and be closer to Hashem and more observant of the mitzvos". But that attittude has not been working for us, obviously. 

Re: The Workout Room! 09 Jan 2017 02:10 #302572

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thanks613 wrote on 09 Jan 2017 01:46:
What kind of "spiritual help" are we talking about here?  As frum jews, I think it's easy for us to say "yes I want to grow spiritually and be closer to Hashem and more observant of the mitzvos". But that attittude has not been working for us, obviously. 


First of all, I'm not sure how you meant it, but I don't think that it's fair to say that 'being close to Hashem, and more observant of the mitzvos' don't work for us. I do not believe that we truly put in the sacrifice and effort into it to make it work. But that's really not the point that we were discussing, was it?
The spiritual help that I was referring to on the bottom of page 3, is 'SA spirituality' that does not go against the Torah and yet I'm uncomfortable with it because of its source.  I think that it's proper to question it to make sure that it is in keeping with out faith, but after one concludes that it actually works well with a lot of what chazal has said, (which a lot of it does), then I should accept it and move on...
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STORY TIME :)

Dr. Seuss - You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself in any direction you choose. You're on your own, and you know what you know. And you are the guy who'll decide where to go.

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Last Edit: 09 Jan 2017 15:10 by stillgoing.

Re: The Workout Room! 09 Jan 2017 14:29 #302608

  • cordnoy
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stillgoing wrote on 09 Jan 2017 02:10:

thanks613 wrote on 09 Jan 2017 01:46:
What kind of "spiritual help" are we talking about here?  As frum jews, I think it's easy for us to say "yes I want to grow spiritually and be closer to Hashem and more observant of the mitzvos". But that attittude has not been working for us, obviously. 


First of all, I'm not sure how you meant it, but I don't think that it's fair to say that 'being close to Hashem, and more observant of the mitzvos' don't work for us. I dont believe that we do not truly put in the sacrifice and effort into it to make it work. But that's really not the point that we were discussing, was it?
The spiritual help that I was referring to on the bottom of page 3, is 'SA spirituality' that does not go against the Torah and yet I'm uncomfortable with it because of its source.  I think that it's proper to question it to make sure that it is in keeping with out faith, but after one concludes that it actually works well with a lot of what chazal has said, (which a lot of it does), then I should accept it and move on...

Perhaps focus on definition 1,2 & 3.

www.dictionary.com/browse/spirituality?s=t
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Re: The Workout Room! 09 Jan 2017 15:18 #302616

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cordnoy wrote on 09 Jan 2017 14:29:

stillgoing wrote on 09 Jan 2017 02:10:

thanks613 wrote on 09 Jan 2017 01:46:
What kind of "spiritual help" are we talking about here? 


'SA spirituality' that does not go against the Torah and yet I'm uncomfortable with it because of its source.  I think that it's proper to question it to make sure that it is in keeping with out faith, but after one concludes that it actually works well with a lot of what chazal has said, (which a lot of it does), then I should accept it and move on...

Perhaps focus on definition 1,2 & 3.

www.dictionary.com/browse/spirituality?s=tt


Www.dictionary.com
spirituality
[spir-i-choo-al-i-tee]
noun, plural spiritualities.
1.
the quality or fact of being spiritual.
2.
incorporeal or immaterial nature.
noun, plural spiritualities.
3.
predominantly spiritual character as shown in thought, life, etc.; spiritual tendency or tone.
4.
Often, spiritualities. property or revenue of the church or of an ecclesiastic in his or her official capacity.



#1 and 3 don't help at all, but I like the way #2 sounds (even if I can't pronounce all of the words)
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Re: The Workout Room! 09 Jan 2017 17:07 #302622

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of or relating to the spirit or soul, as distinguished from the physical nature:
a spiritual approach to life.
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My threads: Mikvah Night - Page 1Page 2Page 3Last Page

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Re: The Workout Room! 09 Jan 2017 21:46 #302643

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I understand that something is spiritual when it has the power of God flowing through it. To live a spiritual life means I'm devoting my life to God and living in his light and way of life. Spirituality is that power, flow or light from God. I obtain spirituality by devoted myself to God. 

I have a prayer that I say, "God, please make me a beacon of your spirituality." I imagine it as a vessel that emanates light on to others.

For me, spirituality is always symbolized as a light. I find it helpful to bring abstract concepts down to earth with real-life comparisons.
If you're an LGBTQ or LGBTQ-questioning person and looking for someone who can understand you, feel free to reach out. I promise no judgement and to try and listen the best I can. 

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Last Edit: 09 Jan 2017 21:47 by shlomo24.

Re: The Workout Room! 09 Jan 2017 22:00 #302644

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Shlomo24 wrote on 09 Jan 2017 21:46:
I understand that something is spiritual when it has the power of God flowing through it. To live a spiritual life means I'm devoting my life to God and living in his light and way of life. Spirituality is that power, flow or light from God. I obtain spirituality by devoted myself to God. 

I have a prayer that I say, "God, please make me a beacon of your spirituality." I imagine it as a vessel that emanates light on to others.

For me, spirituality is always symbolized as a light. I find it helpful to bring abstract concepts down to earth with real-life comparisons.

The reason some of us do not like that understandin' or definition is because then it gets involved with the need to determine which God is being referenced.
My email: thenewme613@hotmail.com
My threads: Mikvah Night - Page 1Page 2Page 3Last Page

https://guardyoureyes.com/forum/1-Break-Free/210029-Tryin
:pinch: Warning: Spoiler!
My job: Punchin' bag of GYE - "NeshamaInCharge"
Quote from the chevra: "Is Cordnoy truly a Treasure Island pirate from the Southern Seas?"

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Re: The Workout Room! 10 Jan 2017 19:31 #302744

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The Essentials of Recovery

Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves... We thought we could find an easier softer way. But we could not... Half measures availed us nothing.
Of alcoholics who came to A.A. and really tried, 50% got sober at once and remained that way; 25% sobered up after some relapses, and among the remainder, those who stayed on with A.A. showed improvement. Other thousands came to a few A.A. meetings and at first decided they didn't want the program. But great numbers of these—about two out of three—began to return as time passed.
We find that no one need have difficulty with the spirituality of the program. Willingness, honesty and open mindedness are the essentials of recovery. But these are indispensable.

Willingness: Are you willing to show-up and do the work? (yes-no?)

Honesty: Will you answer questions honestly with a simple yes or no? (yes-no?)

Open mindedness: Will you lay aside any prejudices, experience the program and assess the results for yourself? (yes-no?)

BIG SHOT!
Free Choice?!
Yirai's Memories
STORY TIME :)

Dr. Seuss - You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself in any direction you choose. You're on your own, and you know what you know. And you are the guy who'll decide where to go.

FSKOT! (Fell Shmell--Keep on Trucking) (The Rebba R' Bards)

613stillgoing@gmail.com

Re: The Workout Room! 10 Jan 2017 19:37 #302747

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The above quote may make some people upset. One may say that he tried 12 steps, he Is willing to be honest, but it 'wasn't for him'. Let's just remember that those writing it are writing their own opinion based on their experiences.  you don't have to agree with it, just like they don't have to agree with you.
:pinch: Warning: Spoiler!
BIG SHOT!
Free Choice?!
Yirai's Memories
STORY TIME :)

Dr. Seuss - You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself in any direction you choose. You're on your own, and you know what you know. And you are the guy who'll decide where to go.

FSKOT! (Fell Shmell--Keep on Trucking) (The Rebba R' Bards)

613stillgoing@gmail.com

Re: The Workout Room! 10 Jan 2017 20:23 #302753

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stillgoing wrote on 10 Jan 2017 19:37:
"stillgoing" post=302747 date=1484077043 catid=1


The above quote may make some people upset. One may say that he tried 12 steps, he Is willing to be honest, but it 'wasn't for him'. Let's just remember that those writing it are writing their own opinion based on their experiences.  you don't have to agree with it, just like they don't have to agree with you.
:pinch: Warning: Spoiler!


I'd imagine that you're correct that many who left didn't really try it. And I'd imagine hat for many, it wasn't for them and maybe even didn't work for them. There's no magic to the 12 steps that guarantees it works for everyone. If you automatically say that anyone who it didn't work for didn't really try, then you've given it a 100 percent success rate for those who try.

Re: The Workout Room! 10 Jan 2017 23:35 #302762

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Workingguy wrote on 10 Jan 2017 20:23:

stillgoing wrote on 10 Jan 2017 19:37:
"stillgoing" post=302747 date=1484077043 catid=1


The above quote may make some people upset. One may say that he tried 12 steps, he Is willing to be honest, but it 'wasn't for him'. Let's just remember that those writing it are writing their own opinion based on their experiences.  you don't have to agree with it, just like they don't have to agree with you.
:pinch: Warning: Spoiler!


I'd imagine that you're correct that many who left didn't really try it. And I'd imagine hat for many, it wasn't for them and maybe even didn't work for them. There's no magic to the 12 steps that guarantees it works for everyone. If you automatically say that anyone who it didn't work for didn't really try, then you've given it a 100 percent success rate for those who try.

Nobody said anything about a 100% success rate. It is certainly possible that it would not work for some people, as everyone is different and one-size-fits-all answers rarely work for all.    However, based on what I've heard from people associated with gye who say that '12 steps aren't for them', most of them have not really tried it for an extended period of time.  If they would put everything into it - would it work for them? I have no idea. I'm simply sharing my observation, but of course you are right that there is never a guarantee, with any 'proven' solution.
BIG SHOT!
Free Choice?!
Yirai's Memories
STORY TIME :)

Dr. Seuss - You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself in any direction you choose. You're on your own, and you know what you know. And you are the guy who'll decide where to go.

FSKOT! (Fell Shmell--Keep on Trucking) (The Rebba R' Bards)

613stillgoing@gmail.com

Re: The Workout Room! 10 Jan 2017 23:37 #302763

  • shlomo24
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It's funny. I knew who was responding to the quote even before I saw the username. Hey, at least we're consistent!

And I have had the same experience as SG.
If you're an LGBTQ or LGBTQ-questioning person and looking for someone who can understand you, feel free to reach out. I promise no judgement and to try and listen the best I can. 

Email: iam24zman@gmail.com
Last Edit: 10 Jan 2017 23:39 by shlomo24.

Re: The Workout Room! 10 Jan 2017 23:42 #302765

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I have met quite a few people through GYE who are doing BH great without 12 steps. One of them just passed his one thousandth day! (bli ayin hora)   Different things work for different people. It does seem however that serious addicts need 12 steps.
Feel free to contact me at michelgelner@gmail.com

My threads: Lessons Learned: guardyoureyes.com/forum/20-Important-Threads/335248-Lessons-Learned

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Re: The Workout Room! 10 Jan 2017 23:50 #302769

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Hashem Help Me wrote on 10 Jan 2017 23:42:
I have met quite a few people through GYE who are doing BH great without 12 steps. One of them just passed his one thousandth day! (bli ayin hora)   Different things work for different people. It does seem however that serious addicts need 12 steps.

I would never suggest that one cannot become sober without the 12 steps, nor would I say that it would definitely work. That was not what I wrote above.
BIG SHOT!
Free Choice?!
Yirai's Memories
STORY TIME :)

Dr. Seuss - You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself in any direction you choose. You're on your own, and you know what you know. And you are the guy who'll decide where to go.

FSKOT! (Fell Shmell--Keep on Trucking) (The Rebba R' Bards)

613stillgoing@gmail.com

Re: The Workout Room! 11 Jan 2017 21:28 #302874

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Step 2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.

Lack of power, that was our dilemma. (yes-no?) We had to find a power by which we could live, and it had to be a Power greater than ourselves. Obviously. But where and how were we to find this Power? Well, that's exactly what this book is about. Its main object is to enable you to find a Power greater than yourself which will solve your problem. 

...deep down in every man, woman, and child, is the fundamental idea of God. It may be obscured by calamity, by pomp, by worship of other things, but in some form or other it is there. For faith in a Power greater than ourselves, and miraculous demonstrations of that power in human lives, are facts as old as man himself. We finally saw that faith in some kind of God was a part of our make-up, just as much as the feeling we have for a friend. Sometimes we had to search fearlessly, but He was there. He was as much a fact as we were. We found the Great Reality deep down within us. In the last analysis it is only there that He may be found. It was so with us. We can only clear the ground a bit. If our testimony helps sweep away prejudice, enables you to think honestly, encourages you to search diligently within yourself, then, if you wish, you can join us on the Broad Highway. With this attitude you cannot fail. The consciousness of your belief is sure to come to you. Some of us grow into it more slowly. But He has come to all who have honestly sought Him. When we drew near to Him He disclosed Himself to us!

BIG SHOT!
Free Choice?!
Yirai's Memories
STORY TIME :)

Dr. Seuss - You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself in any direction you choose. You're on your own, and you know what you know. And you are the guy who'll decide where to go.

FSKOT! (Fell Shmell--Keep on Trucking) (The Rebba R' Bards)

613stillgoing@gmail.com
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