Fb2016fbt wrote on 24 Jul 2016 04:50:

Well, why do you want to stop?

Actually, even more basic question - do you want to stop?

(BTW totally fine by me if the answer is no, so long as you're being honest.)

I would like to stop bec I realize that I want to live a normal healthy life and when I get married, the marriage could be a disaster if I don't stop now. Additionally, I see on my ruchniyus that I do much better when I'm a week free of acting out, so I do want to stop, I guess the question is how strong is that willingness. I've never got caught or had anyone come down on me and I'm not asking for that to happen, so I guess that may add why I am lazy about actually stopping for good and I rationalize and say just one more time 

I believe that the best motivating factor is to be "selfish ", meaning that you want to heal/recover for your own sake.
Obviously we all understand that by acting out we commit a sin, deceive our wives and family.. but the first and most important reason should be the realization I'm doing it for myself.
Only then will you respect yourself, this will in turn  lead to respect toward the rest.
Realizing that our lives have become unmanageable is the first step, one which is probably very difficult to acknowledge.
Once you're past this hurdle you can start creating a battle plan (which is different for each individual). This part may take some testing, you might slip and/or fall but you will learn something at each step and gain more insight on your own personal battle.
For sure it isn't easy but always keep in mind that you're not alone, on gye there are plenty of great people who are concerned about you. They will be there for you when you need them, you just have to reach out.

I too am all filtered-up, but Iv'e come to realize that sometimes we put too much trust in our filters. Meaning, we (at least I) think that the act of installing a filter is a way of deflecting our own responsibility to improve. That can lead to a situation where if one has access to an unfiltered device, he will automatically view porn.

The work should be to focus on self improvement (easier said than done)

Hatzlacha! 
Ps. the courage to tell your Rav is very inspirational.   

But still we can't trust ourselves to be w/o it.

Agreed! 
My point was that don't have confidence in your filter and forget about yourself.

Hashem should watch over all of us and all of klal yisroel!

a

I agree, but with one caveat: Our addiction (or habit) is centerd on ourselves. We have situations or stresses that we can't deal with, so we retreat to masturbation or pornography. If you believe (as SA and the 12 Steps does) that masturbation is "sex with yourself", that showes you howe self centered I am. Intimacy (and I use that word instead of "sex" purposly) in marrige is a union of two people, and for that reason many addicts bascily masturbate with their wives, because they don't know how to deal with another person; till now it was all about themselves.


So for that reason recovery is about getting past ourselves; surrendering our life (not just our addiction) to God. And that can only happen when (in the first step) we admit that our life is out of our control, and I am insane.


At the same time the motivating factor in our recovery is our ego; the fact that we wnat to have decent lives, but the process of recovery has to be spiritual, which means selfless.


I hope I made some sense here, and I'm not stepping on anyones toes.

Let's continue the conversation.

I know that in my addiction I never valued myself. I placed value on many other things before myself. I wasn't a man d'amar. My motivation to get sober was that I wasn't living. I had no control and I was doing things that I didn't want to do constantly. I think using the word ego is as bit strong of a word. Yes, I wanted to get sober for myself, and that is perfectly healthy and normal. In my experience, people who were getting sober for others didn't stay sober for very long. It doesn't mean that additional motivations can't help someone get the proverbial "kick in the pants" that they might need, but it's not what keeps people sober. In terms of intimacy and sex, I agree mostly. However, "to thine own self be true," and masturbation doesn't necessarily mean that it's a breach of sobriety. I'm also in SAA and some people there are living sober and recovery-oriented lives but they masturbate occasionally. Everyone has different things that are addictive to them. I can look at attractive women because I don't find them triggering and many people can't because they find them triggering. In my case I do find masturbation as an incredibly unhealthy activity for me now, it is a bottom-line activity for me. But sex can be a union between two people, if it's done correctly.

I agree with you totally Reb Shlomo, I just want to point out that we have to get out of ourselves as well (on top of the 1st Step insanity), and that ultimatly helps us as well. And really, that is the 12th Step; to go outside of our comfort zone, and help someone else, because that that helps us.

Yes, there is a fine line of standing up for ourselves and also not focusing on ourselves unnecessarily. 

So far I've been going to a therapist which integrates the 12 steps so although I do have some knowledge about the I haven't actually 'worked' all the steps.
I know that a very important part of recovery is to 'delete' oneself and focus on the others but my experience shows me (so far at least) that this shouldn't mean you should forget completely about yourself.
At the end of the day everyone of us has to feel good in order to recover. 
When it comes to the motivating factor I do believe that you have to start with yourself. It's only when we understand that G'd loves each of us and created the world for us (me) that we can really start to recover.
Then, during that process we should start to connect with other people (instead of just being centered on ourselves) and reach out to help others.