Firstly my appologies as normally I try to stick to my origanal post labeled soultions for tonight when posting about myself. But I feel the above topic requires special attention.

Unmanagable is generally the first step to many of us in recovery. The defintion of unmanagable can have many connotations,
1) Physically our days are not functional when obssesed with lust. We are falling behind in paransa and family obligations.
2) Our concious makes life unmanagable as we can't live with oursleves knowing we are doing wrong.
3) It often only relieves us temporarly but leaves us in a state of depression and despiar as we are never statsified and constantly seeking to further satisfy our lust.

Here is my dliemna, I attach myself most to reason #1. Although,I should work on reasons #2 & #3. So over yomim tovim for those that followed me, I had tons of work & family pressure. I kind of knew that I can't do both. I knew that I can't have lust, family and work all over yom tov. I knew the only way to succeeed was no lust. So I was somewhat successful then. Now yom tov has passed and work pressure slowed down a bit. So, my yetzer or my lust addiction (whatever you want to call it) comes rolling in. He tells me, Ok now its managable you can have both so why not. And he has succeeded somewhat.

It's kind of ironic. Because when I had the pressure I thought ok the pressure is what's cooking me to want lust so badly. But once the pressure slows down and I am calmer my lust won't bother me so much. But in reality the opposite has ocurred.

Any advice what to do when at the current moment you feel like life is managable with lust?

The yetzer has many lies he tells us to try and kill us. They are all lies. Most of us find that out the hard way .

Thanks Gibor120.

My question is what now? If the unmanagable part was a deterent and now its not unmanagable at-least in my physical mind. What now?

waydown wrote:
Perhaps read how other's lives became unmanagable. I'm afraid I don't have a magic pill. Some keep falling until their life really is unmanagable. Some flounder until they die.

waydown wrote:


if your life is manageable, why bother?

Lomed,

Because

1) at times its unmanagable. However currently today its managable
2) its still very wrong
3) It can lead to bad stuff later on.

But none of those facts say its unmanagable today.

And while unmanagable is certainlly a great reason to bother there are other factors too.

"Unmanageablility" is not a logical reason we use to convince ourselves to stop. It's desperation. When our lives are consumed by lust, we are desperate for a solution. Any solution. If we can't recall those feelings of helplessness, it doesn't sound terribly unmanageable. This is not exactly deep lomdus. Just poshut teitch of the word.

So Moish, Unmanageable means that we can't properly manage lust? It doesn't mean that our daily lives are necessarly unmanagable by lust?

I have found that many people have the quote "our lives have become unmanageable" quote wrong. "We admitted that we were powerless over lust, that our lives had become unmanagable", our LIVES had become unmanagable, not lust, we resorted to lust because our lives had become unmanagable. Being that we were powerless then we couldn't stop resorting to lust.

Shlomo,

Sorry I am very not good at titching terms. you wrote,

"we resorted to lust because our lives had become unmanagable."

So are you suggesting that our lives were unmangable before we resorted to lust?

So its not the lust that makes our lives unmanagable?

Someone please explain in laymans terms. Please don't quote from the white book or any other book. Nothing against it at all. I just sometimes don't comprehend it.

Thanks 9494,

I was under the impression that unmanangaebale was a prerequiste for recovery. But appearntly you guys say thats not so. I wonder what Cords take on the matter is.

Re, "4)Resentment, fear, lack of serenity, being unhappy about the way certain things are in our day to day living"

That may be true for some of us. I don't see that in me though. I am pretty happy.In fact I am struggling more now when i am happy and I was BH successful in work then when I was unhappy and under loads of pressure. I just have an itch that loves to be satisfied. its like a misquito bit. Or better yet like a child with chicken pox that should scracth his/her itch because it makes it worse but the child scratches it anyhow. I should add that i grew up in a home where untznuis magazines even worse than the post where all around. Its just a natrual instinct in me. I don't know that its due to a lack of discontent.

But then again perhaps I am blind. Lust does do that to us. And disclaimer your pointer may be true for many. I am simply saying what is nogoai to my own personal life.

My good friend Waydown,

I admire your single-mindedness in your quest for the truth. You really want to understand. It's beautiful, really.

Unfortunately there is no manual on these things. There isn't a course you can take that will make you an expert. The only thing you can do is try to get sober and stay sober one day at a time for the rest of your life.

If you shift your single-mindedness to trying to figure out what will keep you sober, (in practice not in theory) the truth you are seeking will inevitably emerge in G-d's time.

waydown


I remember when I had similar thoughts.

I'm not unhappy. I'm very chilled and laid back. It's just something I enjoy doing. It's my way of unwinding.

After starting to be clean, I began to notice that I would begin to feel urges when someone would rub me the wrong way, or when I was bored, or when I was stressed. There are different triggers for everyone, and it takes a bit of time to uncover what they are for you.

If it's something that we just enjoy doing, why can't we stay away from it? There are lots of things I enjoy, but I don't feel this same drive. Your analogy of the itch is very appropriate, actually. It itches like crazy and I need to scratch it. Yet, when I scratch, it just continues to itch even more. If I would ignore the itch and do something else, the itch goes away.

You say that when things were hectic at work, and you were crazy busy, the lust was at-bay. Now, when things are quiet and peaceful, you're beginning to get urges. And you're using that as proof that it has nothing to do with happiness/unhappiness. Pressure to get things done, however, is not necessarily an indicator of happiness. It just means that you were busy. On the flip side, not having much to do, is not an indicator that you're happy.

Just something to think about.

waydown wrote:


that is exactly what i was saying. our lives had become unmanageable so we resorted to lust. lust was our solution not our problem. skep explained it well above.

Skeptical,
I don't really get your argument below,

"If it's something that we just enjoy doing, why can't we stay away from it?"

The reason we can't stay away from it is becuase its an addictive enjoyment. Take smoking cigareetes for example there were stories of rosh yeshivas that couldn't stay away from cigarettes even when they were deathly sick from it. They just couldn't learn without it. I won't write names not to embarass. Were they not happy with life? Many were the happiest around. But when one gets an enjoyable addiction they can't stop.

Sorry guys I don't disagree with the notion that for many lust is an outlet to relieve depression. And when one is depressed he will use or better yet abuse lust as a boost. But I just don't see that every single guy has to have that defining reason. i don't know that everyone who has a lust addiction has to have gotten it from soemthing unmanagable in his life. Some maybe a majorty got it from that. But is that a prerequiste for everyone?