I saw a pshat in "Ein mikra yotzei midei peshuto" to mean that if your thoughts are causing you to have mikraei laila, then it shows you are holding somewhere special.
The gemara says explicitly that thay are caused by thoughts and not by sight as much.
So I would tell you to make an extra effort to guard your thoughts.
I have found that 100% of the time, when it happened to me - it was preceded with a fall in thoughts the day before.
Also, be careful not to eat or drink things which cause it - even for someone who is 100% careful with all shmira.
The gemara in berachos praises Elisha for not having one after he traveled, and slept in silk material.
So you see that under the right conditions it can happen to anybody.
Oh, and according to halacha, you should really go to the mikva the next morning before davening, and if your into R' Nachman at all, be sure to say tikkun ha'kellali.
(Sorry had to add that )

Kollel Guy wrote on 07 Jan 2010 06:06:


You're gonna have to source that, Kollel Guy.

BH i dont suffer from this. But i do think that as time goes on it will get less and less. It comes from our thoughts during the day, and if we are more careful things will get better!

Keep it up bro. We "love " you!

b'ahava wrote on 07 Jan 2010 05:51:
They are not good, to be sure. But we have visited this issue before so do some research on the forum.
In general, it depends. How bad off are you? If your MO includes lotes of nutty and dangerous lust acting out or frequent porn and masturbation, and now you are not doing any of those, then it's seems to me that you are in very good shape for the time being. If you put a lot of energy into "solving" the mikrei layla problem you'll probably end upo throwing away all you have gained thus far because you'll again be focusing on lusting/not lusting all day long. It'll be on your mind even more. In the recovery that I am familiar with, improvement comes along with thinking about lusting (and not lusting), less - not more. So, if recovery is your goal, you may need to go easier on yourself here.
(A sefer I learned in my years of active illness said "es meguroseihem avi lahem" - "I'll bring their fears to come to pass upon them" - and interpreted it to mean that if you go to sleep worried about keri, than you'll probably have it! Nu. Poshut, really.)
On the other hand, if you are an occasional drinker as it is, and your real focus is on taharas hamachshovah because you feel the need to be a person with taharas hamachshova, then you'd better ask a rabbi. I'm just a recovering addict (who is gifted with a good measure of taharas hamachshova in order to stay sober and live). And I'm loving it!

And definitely, if you do the right thing it'll get better, eventually.

KG - it might be nice to go to the mikvah, but i was just told of a letter in which R' Volbe says that if a person is nichshol in mz"l (intentionally), he doesn't have to go - he can, if he wants.

Yeah I said "should really" which means black on white he does NOT have to go (O.C. 88 I think, only one sif), but besides for raw halachah - he has every reason to go. Not only by a mikra laila, not only by z"l c"v, but even after marital relations.
Maybe one day when I have time I'll put a thread in the beis medrash with all the mekoros.

Mikvah, schmikva....really, I'd go to the mikvah too, if it happenned to me c"v. It b"H completely stopped happenning after being sober about a year. Till then it happenned 2-3 times a year (even though I was married and occasionally together with my wife).

But if going to the mikvah made me feel in my own heart that my lust addiction was primarily a religious struggle (about olam habo and Hashem), rather that mainly a struggle for my life now (olam hazeh, and me), then I'd avoid it like the plague. Cuz that was one of the main nekudos that made me fail for years and years, before recovery.
Just me sharing.
Good Shabbos!!

Thanks Reb Dov for those last 2 posts. Really put alot into perspective!!

Shavua Tov B'ahava. Wishing you a great week!!!

Hey, B'ahava, hope you're doing well!

Hi people.

Umm, I'm not depressed anymore!
I sort of snapped out of it in the shower Erev Shabbat.
After a(nother) fall, I was hit with a wave of perspective about how far I'd come in the past few months.
So I think I'm back. The struggle is something I want now, its something that's fun again.
I see it as a challenge and not just some external force that has ruined me.

(This is the attitude that got me going on my original clean streak, and its taking me out of depression now. I need this, Dov. Maybe in a couple of weeks we can discuss the down sides of this attitude.)


You know, I'd hate to admit it, but I think my downward spiral (which lasted almost 2 months, r"l) was triggered by a girl. It seems I invested emotionally in her WAY too quickly (a handful of hours) and she broke my heart.
Yes, I made a mistake, but cut me some slack. I'm new to the shidduch game.

Anyway, it seems that I'm making the same mistake, and setting myself up for disaster, again as I write this.
There's a new girl.
We're 1 date in. I don't know how she feels about me. And I'm freaking out.

You know, this is really pathetic. This is so childish. Its embarrassing.
But its real. And I can't help myself.

Maybe I'm not ready for this whole dating thing. Maybe I'll take a break after this one.
But I have to get through this one first.

Worst of all, you want to know WHY I'm falling for her? Because I'm reading the Wikipedia page on her grandfather.
This really has to be a new low of emotional immaturity for this site.

L'maiseh, I'm feelng pretty good now.
But I'm setting myself up for disaster, yet again, if/when it doesn't work out.

How do I deal with this? (Telling me to 'just relax' is not doing it.)

Peace!

I'm going to look back at that last post in like a month and laugh at how stupid I was.
Oy.

Alright, good to hear you've figured out what's bothering you. It's always helpful to put those things on the table, regardless of how insignificant they seem.
I'm waiting to see your name on the top of the 90 day chart.

Woohoo! I'm glad to hear that you're back - I like your idea - use whatever you need to get moving again, then once you're up, you can re-examine things. That sounds like a very balanced approach.

I can certainly relate to feeling down after getting dumped, and having that lead to big falls...

When it comes to dating...well, it's hard. How do you balance opening up and connecting, and yet not having that happen to quickly?

I think that at the beginning, focus on getting to know her, and if you need to, hold yourself back a bit. Let the emotional connection develop as time goes on.

b'ahava wrote on 12 Jan 2010 04:47:

Why wait a month, b'ahava?
I look at my posts from yesterday and already see how stupid I am!
Yes, we have plenty stupidity.

The question you are asking is not how to feel better about what you are doing dating before first knowing some good recovery, but is seems to be about what you should do. Right? You are in a crappy place, knowing what you want to do and knowing what's really best for the girl you are dating - oh, and what's best for you.... Right?