Reb Joe, I'm sorry you fell - but I'm glad that you've picked yourself up, and are moving forward again - we're all with you!

You gotta come up with a good plan and reason why this time will be different, and you gotta really believe that this time will be different.

hi guys and joe
i just read through the whole thread, very very interesting

I've always been a bit cynical about the 12 steps, but I think I needto give it a try, Like tomim2be said in the thread, willpower, and determination and all that stuff, might not necisserily help, you need to go for the core.

Even if the 12 steps arent used, it has to be some sort of freaking solid recovery system that youre using.

Joe, alot of people have told you to start using 12 steps. I personally started once, I stopped, because I was in an area where the only group there, wasnt so appropiate for me. I want to start again. But anyway, it sounds like u really need to listen, instead of 'just' davening, there also has to be a physical keili, learning helps stacks, absolute stacks, but at the same time, someone with a sickness, doesnt just daven and learn harder and harder for the sicknesst to go away, they go and get medial attention, if they want to live. We work bederech hateva.

Joe, you haven't responded wether or not, youre interested in it, please state your opinion.

The reason why I'm responding here, is because I realte to your cycles sooo much, falling, staying clean, falling again, feeling like s****
saying, "ive just gotta learn harder, thats it!" and all that jazz, but its never solid.

I'm a bocher, I've spoken to my pshyciatrist about my problems, what she thinks is, is that I have a high sex drive, maye bordering on addiction, it doesnt really matter what I consider myself, I think it might be easier for me when i get married, regardless of all the people here who say otherwise, so I hope to finish my course at the end of this year and start going out.

It's just been really hard for me lately, Ive just been platzing, I keep on fantisizing in my mind, about just going to a brothel and having sex, I dont know if I'd actually ever do it. but its on my mind, I wish I could, put it that way, I just dont know if it goes past a wish, I only get like this, when going through a hard time, a lot of slip ups. whateva

I should probably stop my rambling, im in a pissed off mood now, so cheers\

net the great II

NET      wow you sound like me before i found this site. Don't take this the wrong way, but you are a dead man and you are doomed to fail. If you just got upset you took it the right way. The first step to the 12, is hitting rock bottom. You have to  be stoped in your tracks, and ready to revamp the way you live, desire, and live. if these words seem foreign to you, well they are still somewhat foreign to me, but at least I know what I don't have.

SB put-up a very good respons to one of the "introduce yourselves" threads about the true benefit of learning. It depends how you learn, are you truly totaly engrossed in your learning when you are in seder. Do you put all of your kochos into it. Do you truly get fired-up?  If you don't learn well enough, then it won't have much of the segulas hatorah.

One more thing, the most important thing is.....
This is an addiction, and we are all addicts, and having a high drive for tayvah is no excuse for not being able to stop the avaira. The R Tzaddok discusses lust addcition and he brings a zohar in noaach as his makor. The reality is that even non-addicts need a different approach after lusting in a repetitive manner (the zohar says 3 times does it).

I may be wrong here, but let me try to be mechadeish alittle machshava. the uniquness in the number three, that the zohar reffers to there is not in "repetiion" since once you have done it twice, it has been repeated, and the third time merly testifies to the 2nd time being a repetition. As R moshe shapiro is masbir by sfiras haomer, every number is as mitshayech to one, they are an extention of the original. So in repetitive lusting, merely doing it twice is enough to be clasified as "repetetive".  So what is unique about 3? davka 3, not 10?

When we look at the word shalsheles, it is milashon shalosh (3). A shalsheles is a chain which interconnects individual links into being a new item, and item that interconnects and redefines each link as being an item that will connect to another. Leshalshel means to lower, and it comes from the same lashon of shalosh. So I'm going on a limb, whic I very rarely do in machashava, and I am saying that 3 interconnects and extends to furthering the item, or lust.

If anyone is a talmid of r moshe shapiro, please add your imput.

See my 'sefer' it's on one of the 'top shelves' in the beis medrash

Oh and sorry ppls for not adding any more on shovavim, i sadly have almost no sefarim on hand. unless you want a thread in halacha?

Thanks for the input..Im still going to try harder and Daven more..I believe HaShem will help me along with this site..Im not a porn watcher , I like togo to forums and talk and that gets me excited...then the rush is over and I feel like , you know what....so Im trying to remember that feeling before I act out again..Im trying like all of you..ok? I do have a high sex drive but don't like having sex with my wife...why is this? Thanks

Familiarity breeds contempt!! theres your answer.

joeshmo wrote on 21 Jan 2010 12:07:
There is a very interesting thing about sexual stimulation, which doesn't seem to make any sense logically. That is, that (the vast majority of the time) people are only interested in that which does not belong to them. You can be infatuated with a woman, but as soon as you marry that same woman, you won't be turned on by her anymore, and only if you work on really loving her will you be properly attracted to her again.
I saw a sefer which discusses this concept, and he explains that lust is almost entirely imagination. You're interest is based on the glamor your own mind creates around the subject of the lust, and not the pleasure you see as a possibility there.

I a relative of mine told me, there was a semi-orthodox guy who used to be in his kehilah, who had been divorced for a few years. Anyways, he's speaking to him, and the guy tells him that every few months, when he passes through his former hometown, he sleeps with his ex-wife.
So he asks the guy "Did you get divorced in a Beis Din?"
And the guy says "Not yet, we only divorced legally so far".
So he tells him "Well, just so you know, according to halacha you're just as married as you were before"
Some time later he meets the guy and asks him how he's doing, and the guy says "I never did it again. You spoiled all my enjoyment. Why the heck did you have to tell me that?".

Kollel Guy wrote on 21 Jan 2010 14:53:


I'm laughing, but sighing, too...

Joe - this might seem like a strange question, but do you find your wife attractive? And do you like her? Do you feel that she treats you well?

I cant agree more with the above. So true!

My wife is beautiful and treats me like a king...she does everything for me..cooks cleans and we raised two good kids...I wouldn't trade her for any woman on earth and that is the truth!! I fantasize alot I guess but when It comes down to it I know I couldn't live without my beautiful wife...If it wasn't for her I wouldn't be where I am today with HaShem..she has and is still pulling me out of the gutter and my former life...Thanks for your advice and prayers..together we will win this fight..

Joe

With an attitude like that you are gonna win!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Keep it up!!!

And always remember how special your wife is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm glad that you appreciate her. I'd say work on loving her more. Giving to her, in every way, and enjoying it!

Giving causes love...

I had another fall I am going to study Torah this morning and pray..I have to have faith that I can beat this..and Im going to work on doing more things with my wife..without her im nothing..thanks

Hey Joeshmo,

Shkoyach for admitting your fall. Instead of just going to study Torah and daven (which are amazing things to do dont get me wrong), why dont we work on trying to change your attitude on life. Lets find whats causing this and uproot and change how you react to similar situations in the future. I have found this to be a very successfull approach.

Hatzalcha

-Yiddle

Yiddle I had yet another fall..I wonder myself why do I go thru this..always fantasizing and going into forums..like I have said before..I don't watch porn..I could careless...its emails...pray for me..