lavi wrote:


Good question.

I would say, "Yes."

I would need to think, though, how to explain it here, but yes, somewhat unique in this.

lavi wrote:


Ditto to DD; does He ever mind that we wanna make a connection? if yes; when please?

Thanks

Who am I to voice my opinion here.

Having said that, חס ושלום!

Like there is a chassidish joke: if this is g-d i don't want to serve a g-d like that

ineedchizuk wrote:


Why not? Is there an 'opinion' club that you weren't invited to?

ineedchizuk wrote:


Seems that's DD's opinion as well (and mine); we waitin' for Lavi's response. He's usually good for his word.

ailu v'ailu divrey elokim chaim

there are plenty of mefurash psukim in nach saying that he doesn't want to see us or have to do with us

but lemaaseh is that what it really means

even after the bas kol said shuvu banim shovavim chutz ma'acheir
Hashem wanted him not to listen and to be chozer btshuva annyway

hi everyone,

to answer the million dollar question:

Does Hashem ever mind us having to connect to him?

i don't have the ability to answer the question fully, but i will bring a few examples of people who Hashem doesn't really like.
one is honest in his calling to Hashem and expresses his feelings in his heart,
even if he is really wicked, Hashem will be close to him, as it says "karoiv Hashem l'chol koirov, l'chol asher yichruhu b'emes".

however if a person besides being wicked, wants to close to Hashem solely for personal gain, he may end up like Korach, in which Hashem accepted Moshe's tefilla, NOT to listen to his tefilla.

and like chazal say that sometimes Hashem will pay someone everything in this world, because he really doesn't want anything to do with this person in the next world, Hashem describes this person as "hated". we also find that Hashem says sometimes "rosho ma lecha l'saper chukoi"

what kilo said is also relevant also it is possible to do teshuva, until then that poor fellow is PERSONA NON GRATA (unwanted person).

people are very different, and Hashem made them that way, and therefore telling Hashem that one doesn't mind a connection, can work differently,
in one case Hashem may say "ok, take your time, i'm waiting for you", yet in a very different case Hashem may say "sorry, but although you don't mind, I DO,"
and this is because such an approach can be considered arrogant.

i apologize for being short this time and the others, just i'm pushed for time, also i consider cordnoy one of best friends here. [i have a feeling everyone does!!!]

To say that Hashem likes some people and not others implies that Hashem can change - sometimes He likes someone, sometimes He doesn't. Hashem does not change because He is already perfect.

We said it many times in many different ways over yom tov. In vechol maaminim for example Hashem is described as "Hashoveh" - unchanging.

The chazal that speak of Hashem hating a rosho says more about the rosho than Hashem so-to-speak. After all, if we feel far from Hashem, who moved?

I don't really understand the relevance of this question anyway. We only know Hashem from His actions, and we rely on His interactions with us. Time and again we praise Hashem for His patience and kindness to all, rosho included. again in vechol maaminim "Hatov, umaitiv loroim v'latovim"

In terms of this addiction Hashem is "Hagoel mimoves ufodeh mishachas". If we turn our wills and lives over to Him (a good summary of what r"h is all about) then He will redeem us from our self-imposed desolation.

Dr.Watson wrote:



dear dr, thank-you for input.
there are several pesukim and chazals, that describe certain people that Hashem does not a relationship with. [unless they do teshuva- which can result in a change of person].
whenever we speak about Hashem, we refer to how we view his actions to us. Torah dibrah k'lashon bnei adam.
If the torah and chazal say the above, i can't be critized for repeating it.
and the relevance is for us to figure out, being that the torah was written for us. so if chazal show us that someone is hated by Hashem, is would be relevant for the sane of mind

I humbly request to ask what is the nafka minah of this convo? If Hashem loves us or not? Or rather if Hashem hates us or not?

I would think that cordnoy would think taut this is too much thinking for an addict. Plus to be honest I don't think this convo really helps us, especially if we say that Hashem hates us.

It is what it is. I am a live and I'm going to go out on a limb and say Hahem loves me. Perhaps those psukim don't apply to us and only to certain people like Hitler. I don't know.

dms1234 wrote:


look buddy, this came about on cordnoys request.
and no, don't think about it, if it isn't relevant to you.
yes, i think Hashem loves us all, but maybe it is good to know that there are some on his black list.

cordnoy wrote:


So to be honest, I didn't start the discussion. You responded by sayin' "Let's hope He doesn't."
Several of us were taken aback by the suggestion that He might mind the connection.
I don't care either way...meanin' the discussion is fine by me.
I didn't see anythin' that anybody said that shook me up one way or the other.
I know the Rambam's about certain aveiros and teshuvah and stuff like that.

I don't think any of that pertains to us, however.
Anyone that comes to GYE, or anyone that has some sort of spark to start livin' again, in my mind, I am sure that God wants that connection.

All posts and comments beforehand were all fine with me, as far as opinions go.

b'hatzlachah

One of the best things about having children for me (and one of the reasons I believe He instructed us to have them) is because it gives me the smallest infantesmal (sp?) Idea of what its like to be Him relating to us.

A parent would always prefer their child talk to him/her and have them in his/hers life than for the child to ignore, shut out, or refuse to speak.

Having said that, one should try to watch how they call out to Hashem. parents will get annoyed when the children complain after we do our best to provide and they don't appreciate it. The famous Gemara says about the sin with the spies: Hashem said: you want to cry for no reason? I'll give you a reason to cry for generations to come.

I know you find Rav Arush to be extreme (your words in another post) but one of my favorite quotes by him is:

If one complains, then Hashem responds, i give all these blessings of life, etc and still he complains? Now I'll really give him something to complain about!

But, when we thank Hashem even for our difficulties, then He responds, this guy is thanking me even with all his tzarus? Now I'm really gonna rain down the blessing and give him something to be thankful for.

(Its the old measure for measure)

May you be sealed in the book for Life and find your voice to thank Hashem for everything in your life, the good, and the "seemingly bad".

B'hatzlacha! ;-)

[quote="cordnoy" post=240490]cordnoy wrote:


So to be honest, I didn't start the discussion. You responded by sayin' "Let's hope He doesn't."
Several of us were taken aback by the suggestion that He might mind the connection.
I don't care either way...meanin' the discussion is fine by me.
I didn't see anythin' that anybody said that shook me up one way or the other.
I know the Rambam's about certain aveiros and teshuvah and stuff like that.

I don't think any of that pertains to us, however.
Anyone that comes to GYE, or anyone that has some sort of spark to start livin' again, in my mind, I am sure that God wants that connection.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

i'm quite pleased that this discussion is fine by you.
and i will write why i think it does pertain to us.

telling Hashem that you don't mind a connection, is a very individualistic approach (nottin' wron' for some). i wanted to point out to anyone who would read your post, that such an approach isn't guaranteed to connect, whereas a more humble approach would be.

it so happens to be that those who know you better, do understand where you are coming from, especially as your very honest approach is appreciated by all.

Like I said....it's fine...one of the reasons is I don't really understand the point at hand. Perhaps it is because I'm not such a humble guy....to put it mildly.