not connected to anything bichlal, but
G-d made the addiction?

Im going for another meeting tommorow.
Im a little apprehenseive,like one whose about to enter for surgery.
I hope to G-d he knows what he's doing.

Regarding the sex talk thats been going on on this thread..
His point is that when we entered the world,it was very scary,because we lacked trust and the anxieties were too much to bear.
And we found the powerful powerful comfort of sex.
We needed a comfort and we found one of the most powerful ones.
We need to acknowledge it's place in our developement,and how we had no choice but to go to it and how it saved us (literally) because no one can live like that.everyone needs something.
Some people lack trust to a certain degree,while others to a much higher degree.
That influences they're point of addiction and escape.
That's how i understand him at least.
-uri

Uri wrote on 15 Sep 2009 10:11:


Yeah. Thats how I understand him too.
(maybe has something to do with the fact that its getting filtered through you ??? )
[Bad joke alert... Dov, did you notice?]

But I just stick in GYE instead of that other 3 letter word. Works like a charm. very safe and comfortable place.

k

Oh, and Uri, Sorry I ignored the first part of your post. I can relate to it totally.

But, please go anyway.

He comes highly recommended.

By Guard.

Huh?

What did you ask?

Oh, Who is Guard?

Don't really know, to be honest.  But he's a good guy.
k

Sex Without Love-by Sharon Olds


  A pleasure we do out of love for the other person
We our sharing the sexual experiment with
When the innocent become the intimate

It’s when that passion of love turns into a hobby
Then into an obsession and then that turns into a have to have
You can’t stop thinking about your next fix
You look for it everywhere in everyone
You start having withdraws from it
You wonder how you got this way
So dependent on it to get you through the day
You think it’s the only thing that your good at
The guys keep coming and going like fire
At times when it hurts so bad you cant do anything
You tell yourself no more not another time
But as soon as soon as your better
Your right back at it
You ask yourself
Why you do this every time
You just don’t understand
It’s as if your being sexualy
Taken advantage by your own body

You wanna tear your hair our if your not doing it
The people just keep getting older while your still the same age
Started 2-3 years now it doesn’t really matter how old as long as you get the fix
You have to do it
It is your drug
Your Acid

People have been telling you for months that you need help
The people that know you the real you
This isn’t the real you and you know it
You can feel it
The lying
The addiction
The lack of pride you have for your body and self
It’s not you
It’s like he said right before he left
How does it feel to be trash now that you are trash,
And now you are truly trash.
You are not trash this is not you

You know how this started a young women lost within her broken hearted emotions
You just know you don’t know how to stop it
You now need help
Lots of help
Cause sitting here
Your itching to do it again
And pleading someone help
HELP! ! ! PLEASE! ! ! HELP! ! !
You don’t wanna be like this forever 

(ps-the idea of being taken advantage of your own body is a very powerful idea and a great tool to fight this thing.
I'm no expert-but I think there is something there.)

Yechidah, thanks for posting that. You obviously had to type it yourself (since there were mistakes). Wow. I just sent it to a woman who is in touch with me, doing terrible things and desperate to do teshuvah and break free. It sounds just like what she is feeling now!

That is beautiful; the challenges of men and women are so different. The desperate need to take and the desperate need to give in hope of being validated. Ach, that I could heal all the broken hearts! Selichos indeed - Elokah D'Srivey Lebanim Anenan - God of Broken Hearts, Answer Us!

kanesher wrote on 15 Sep 2009 20:58:


How beautiful! How appropriate!! How touching!! U must have beating a big big heart underneath all the macho libertarian NRA exterior ;D

Noorah BAmram wrote on 17 Sep 2009 01:18:


Frankly, like most of us - I had some rather negative experiences as a child. I started going to a hand to hand combat class - at 10. It was a temporary relief and raised my own boundaries.

I remember once being randomly attacked in Yeshiva by a number of "cool kids" - this was I think 7th or 8th grade - they it was fun to attack the wierd guy. Problem was, weird guy was friggin nuts. With his friends in a circle, I smashed cool guys head into a stone wall until they pulled me off of him. I think he got 12 stitches or something.

There's a great book called On Killing about the psychological effects of violence and specifically lethal force in military and police action. And he speaks of the fact the world is split into 3 groups

1) Sheep, kind and helpless.

2) Wolves, people who will eat the sheep.

3) Sheepdogs. Kind, pleasant, loyal whom will rip out the wolf's jugular if he goes for the sheep.

I decide I would be a sheepdog. I HATE seeing people in pain. Therefore, I HATE the people causing it. Therefore, I want the means to - well, be a sheepdog.  Therefore, I like guns & hand to hand combat. I think responsible, trained and stable people should carry them - like here in Israel. What's worth shooting once is worth shooting twice

Yes, I'm seeing a therapist  No, I'm not going to kill anyone; at least, anyone who doesn't need killing.  ;D

So Uri.... howd it go?

yea
so i was too sick to go yesterday
we rearranged the meeting for today
so ill fill u guys in tonight iy'h

gr8
I don't know if I said before, but your summeries were really helpful. It helped me undersstand  myself better. thanks

kanesher

your story hits home.

from grades 1-7 I was bullied by this one kid.

Boruch Hashem I was never really hurt but by recess he would suddenly and out of the blue tackle me and shove me to the ground and sit on me for about 15 seconds.sometimes he would spit at me or shove sticky candy wrappers down my shirt.etc etc etc - 8 years on and off with this garbage

my mother knew about this and said that one day she will beat him up(she never did)

From Grade 8 on I didn't have such problems but it must have bothered me because there was one time where I lost control.

I think I was about when I was 18 or 19 and younger kids used to play by recess in the Mesivta building of the school.I saw one 10 year old really start beating up on another kid and I mean really bad.I must have snapped or something because I never did this before nor since.I grabbed this ten year old bully dragged him to a secluded staircase and smashed him against the wall and basically hung him there there with his feet dangling.and I told him that I will kill him if he ever does such a thing again.the poor kid had this panicked look and was trying to kick me with those dangling feet.It didn't work.Finally I threw him to the floor and he scrambled off.

This was very wrong.It was proper to restrain him but not to scare him like that.

Probably could have used therapy then.

do I need it now?

who knows.

for now I will settle for good old fashion tefillah

kanesher, who is the author of this "on killing" book?

Gut year,chevre...

To be honest with you all,Thursday's meeting was a little over my head.
An hour and a half in a small room and very deep stuff and a little difficult to comprehend,but i will do my  best to share what i did indeed get.

We ended off last week's meeting with the basics of our understanding of the addiction and the road to recovery.
1)Person loses trust in the world
2)Person fears world
3)Person puts up shield
4)Person looks for comfort
5)Person becomes addicted to comfort.

Because nobody can handle a scary world without trust.
And nobody can resist the comfort of a world with shields.
And that’s how we find ourselves addicted to sex.
We temporarily leave our shielded world and enter our comfort zone for periods of time.
In sex we are safe.
No one can hurt us.

Now the path to recovery is two-fold.
First thing we need to do is to start to live life again.
We’ve been avoiding real life for a while now, and it should end.
The second thing is more at the core of things:
We must learn to trust again.

Now what is trust?
Think of a person you trust?
Now how would you feel if that person betrayed you with the girl you love?

Put differently:
2 different people find their wives cheating on them.
One shoots his wife and her lover.
The other packs his bags and leaves.
Why?
One’s whole security depended on himself.
The other:on his wife.
The second guy can’t handle such an attack.So he attacks back to be “in control” again.
Now they both trusted their wives.
But it comes down to trust in self.
Or else you cant trust anyone.

Now this is the confusing part:
What keeps us from having security in ourselves is:ourselves.
You see,when our heart felt that it couldn’t handle this world,the brain took the responsibility to keep the heart safe.
When the brain senses something that it feels threatens the heart,it takes protective measures.
It takes “control”.
Let’s go-he tells the feet.
Get angry-he tells the heart.
Smack that person-he tells the hands.

But the brain now has too much power.
It is now “Big Brother”.
It always has to be in control.

And our heart does not feel anymore.
It does not get the things it needs.
It does not receive the love,the warmth,etc…
Because the mind is afraid that these feelings might be too strong for the heart.
And this is our biggest enemy.
The control.
If we could turn off our mind,and let our heart live unrestricted,we would see that our heart can really handle it.
And we’d have more security in ourselves.
And that security would grow.
And we would be free.
And then life would begin.

In his book “First Day”,Rav Shlachter tells the story of this woman who is a recovering lustaholic who has a brainstorm along these very lines.
She decides that although, or rather, because she is afraid of roller coasters,she will overcome her fears and go on it.
Her mind was screaming:No!We’ll die up there!We won’t be in control!What if something happens?!
But she went on.
And when she got on the roller coaster,she had no option to let go.
She said that those few minutes were the most free of her life.
She was liberated from her mind control prison of safety.
There was safety outside her mind!
This is it,guys.
This is beetzem what I’m trying to tell you.
The world is not such a bad place.
We are much stronger than we think.
But we are convinced otherwise,so we are in defense mode.
Let us begin to live again.
Let us relax the control our mind rules us with.
Let us let our hearts free.
And our heart will grow.
And our sense of security,our sense of self,will grow.
The world will be a comfort zone.
Life will be a comfort zone.
And this whole lusting thing will end.

-uri

This post brings tears to my eyes.
Why?
Because it is emes.
I know it to be true,
And I am afraid.

You know how the Ramchal writes at the beginning of mesilas yesharim that he's not bringing any chiddushim?
This is not a chiddush for me.
But, Gd, and only Gd, knows how many times I have to hear this.
I hope not too many more...