I'm staring a new thread because I'm a new user although my story may not really be so new. I am a single bachur in my mid 20's in a reputable yeshiva. I am pretty well known in my yeshiva for being a top bachur and even with everything that is happening behind the scenes I still try to learn seriously. I have been struggling with these desires since high school (somewhere between 10th and 11th grade). My first introduction to it was through my older brother. He had some dirty magazines in his room, nothing hard core but enough to wet my appetite. Later that fed into internet sites and acting out. During most of high school and early Bais Medresh I kept pretty clean, only falling prey to internet once every few months or so, although I did have a pretty consistent problem with acting out. Within the past few years though I have started to indulge in ti'vah more often, completely letting loose with regards to what I looked at online. Pictures, videos, web cam sites. These ti'vahs really take hold of your entire body. Everyone whose been there knows how deeply entrenched your mind can get in these things. It completely colors every part of your life. Your relationship with friends, your learning, your involvement in shidduchim, your self estimate. It just got worse when you add in the difficulty I've had with shidduchim. I found out about GYE from a rebbi of mine around asaras yimay tshuva time. I initially kept clean for 30 days (probably a record for me). But over the past week I fell and then I really spiraled downwards from there. Just within the last 24 hours I went to a strip club for the first time in my life. I actually touched and interacted with someone. The problem is that I enjoyed it and I think this may start a much worse expression of the addiction than I ever experienced before. I really need help especially if I ever want to get married. I tried working through the handbook, and finished most of the perspective part, but apparently I'm still getting worse. Just one question to end this post: does anyone besides me think that the recognition that this thing is an addiction and that the pleasure pathways are built into your brain makes you more vulnerable instead of less? That you may be more likely to do things that you otherwise wouldn't have done blaming it on being beyond your control. I hope I don't hurt anyone through this post I just really need to get this out there and do something about this. I have more to say but I'll leave it at that for now. Please help me!!!

Welcome aboard, Wantchange. Your story is not new at all, and you are not alone. Be proud that you have joined this holy Chabura of Yidden striving to improve.

As far as your question about "addiction", you are right that the point is not to use it as an excuse to wallow in the problem. Rather, it should help to not get hung up in feeling guilty and depressed over the fact that you have desires. That is a fact that you do not have control over. However you can choose to not allow it to control you. Concentrate on working on what you can control. Commit to staying away from all forms of triggers, the less you feed it the less you will need it. Read the handbook, there are many methods to use, see what works for you. And keep in touch, sharing your journey makes it so much easier.

Hatzlacha and KOMT!!

Gevura!

Welcome, Wantchange, its great to have a new tayere yid join up here and work on becoming a better person and jew. Gevura gave you some good advice. stick around, read up on the forum, read the handbook, keep on posting and keep on working at making the changes you want. remember that it is a process and don't expect to become Rav Elyashiv by next week.
wishing you much hatzlocha
zs

Welcome there Wc,

As you already see, there are many wise men hangin' around here. Do stick around and it will iy"H rub off on you.

BTW, you may not become R' Elyashiv by next week, but you can become even greater than him by today. As Chazal teach us, a BT is greater than a tzaddik gomur. So mark this day on your calendar as the day you commited to start your GYE journey, keep at it one day at a time, and iy"H in a year from now, and every year thereafter, you will celebrate your personal Yom Tov.

Yes, easier said than done, but doable nevertheless. Just keep vigilant and guard your eyes and your mind/heart from all forms of lust/triggers. Take it a day at a time, and daven to Hashem daily to help you cuz you cannot do it without His help.

Hatzlacha!

MT

Thanks a lot for replying. Just knowing that there is someone there actually reading my story and empathizing with me really helps. Real people who know what I'm going through, who I can actually talk to and be honest with. Thanks.
That's another thing MT, you mentioned davening. This morning after I woke up after having been where I was last night and my mind still filled with inappropriate thoughts I got myself out of bed, went to drink a pre-shachris coffee (as is my routine) and started off to daven. But then I thought to myself my mind is so full of garbage there's no way that I'll be able to keep focused on davening. I'll probably just think about all types of gross things, and worse with my tfilin on, and I just couldn't bring myself to go to shachris. How do you deal with that, when you fall bad and your mind is really full of garbage how can you bring yourself to try to daven?

Dear wantchange,

Do you get PMs?

wantchange wrote on 09 Nov 2012 17:00:


1. There is a beautiful tefillah in some siddurim and machzorim which may give you the chizzuk you need for davenning in all matzovim (helps me):

מי אנכי שאזכה להתפלל לפני הקב"ה שהוא א-ל גדול ונורא ואנכי איש חוטא והכעסתי שמו הגדול במעשי הרעים, ואנכי בשר ודם עפר ואפר, ואיני כדאי וראוי להזכיר שמו הגדול הגבור והנורא, ומכל שכן להתפלל לפניו ולהזכיר שמו הגדול כמה פעמים. אוי לי איך אשא פנים לעמוד לפני מלך גדול ונורא מלך מלכי המלכים הקדוש ברוך הוא עילת כל העילות וסיבת כל הסיבות. אלא מפני רחמיו וחסדיו הגדולים שהוא מרחם על בריותיו ורוצה בתפלה ותחנונים של עבדיו כמו שנאמר קרוב ה' לכל קוראיו לכל אשר יקראוהו באמת, רצון יראיו יעשה ואת שועתם ישמע ויושיעם, שומע תפילה עדיך כל בשר יבואו.

2. The Bnei Yisaschar (in hakdamah to Derech Pikudecha) brings a Chazal which says that every Jew must learn all parts of Torah, Niglah and Nistar. What if someone is drowning deeply in his sins, how can he dare to learn all parts of Torah in his lowly matzav? Answers the B”Y, the Gemarra (Kidushin 49b) says that even the biggest Rosho can become a tzaddik gomur with just a hirhur teshuva. So he needs to seriously decide he is ready to do teshuva, and he’s ready to go - like the biggest tzaddik.
(And if ch”v he falls again, well he’s only human, so Hashem will definitely understand and let him try again. And again etc.)

MT

I PM'd you, but will say this about the tefilah thing. It is so very important to have real tefillah, and that is tefillah that works. Based on my experience in my own recovery, it is so premature for discussion about this right now. You are in a place that even the most sincere tefilos will not help in the long run. Lu yetzuyar that you fixed all your kavanos to be perfect - you'd still have her sitting on your lap in a week, and still continue to break boundaries you never thought you'd ever break in this lifetime.

Now is not the time to prepare for tefillah, and not the time for doron - now is the time for milchomoh. And I do not mean milchomoh with the yeitzer, at all, but a fight for help. You need help - real help. Actually getting yourself to get the kind of help you probably need now is a great battle. We fight it tooth and nail. We use rationalizations of religious, psychological, and shame-based natures. We try everything but what we think might really work.

But you can do it. You can get the help you need. Rebbe Nachman used to say ader a nisayon, ader a bizayon. I believe that it's now a choice between more humility - or more humiliation, for you. Discomfort of moving out of your comfort zone to get the help you really need - or more pain of confusion resulting from your leading the double life of acting out your fantasies. There is no easy way out. But at least you are far from alone, my friend.

Did you get my PM? Or should I post it here?

- Dov

Just want to say welcome and y'yasher kochacha for taking at the first step of admitting your addiction. I'm tending to agree with Dov here, that you will need real, live help to do this. I wish you much [s]hatzlacha[/s] guts in doing what it's going to take to break free. I hope you do it soon.

I lack a certain level of formal recovery experience/chochma, but I would suggest that you reread your initial post a few times. the fact that you perceived yourself to enjoy you expeirence and that you write about it with such a negative connotation here is mutually exclusive. what you did is either positive (it's not...), or it's negative. THAT IS NOT A VALUE JUDGMENT ON YOU!!!!! You are still a holy brother; you just need to work on a few things, alongside all of us. You obviously want to change at some level of your soul. The next step is to isolate that desire and find a way (this is where the other guys step in) to replace it/vanguish it, clean yourself up, and go forward. it happens to be that the proverbial sandpaper of an addiction/big issue is really good for bringing out the natural shine of a Yid, after he is rinsed off a bit...
b'hatzlacha raba chavivi!

dov wrote on 09 Nov 2012 19:33:

like when u have c"v a illnes u dont just daven u have see a doctor wellcome you have found the right place

I think I'm coming to terms with the fact that I have to see a doctor or do something more substantial about this.I just have to figure out what is the best approach to take.
The one thing I'm not yet convinced about this whole forum thing is that I sort of feel the more time I spend dwelling on these things and the struggles I face the more they are on my mind. In some ways maybe I'm better off trying to avoid thinking about them as opposed to bringing them up on this forum.
But I do appreciate the help and concern.

checkout the website and join a group sign up it helps alot

wantchange wrote on 11 Nov 2012 15:50:


I think I know how you feel, but it is important to stay connected to people who understand you and can potentially help you.

Simply "avoiding thinking" about your addiction will not make it go away. It may help for a short time, but it will keep bringing itself back up.

While I still believe you need to connect with someone real who can help you, here's something you can try right away.

1. Avoid looking at women in all settings. Be very strict.

2. Here's the bigger challenge: avoid inappropriate thoughts. Stop entertaining them. Don't let them take a seat in your brain. As soon as the thoughts come, including the thought that you want to do something inappropriate, try the following tefillah -- Yes! tefillah. Bring Hashem into your struggle. In fact, learn to avoid the struggle altogether by turning it over to Him:

"Ribono Shel Olam, I am powerless over lust and my life has become unmanageable.
Only You can restore me to sanity.
I turn my life and my lust over to your care and ask you to please heal me from this illness of lust. I don’t want to lust. I only want You and a relationship with You and your Torah. I surrender my lust to you. Please take my lust."

Say it every single time a thought comes. Even if it comes right back. Even if you have to say it hudreds of times a day. Be stubborn in surrendering your lust.

Go!

wantchange wrote on 09 Nov 2012 17:00:


First off you have to remember that just because you did this one aveira last night, does not mean you throw it away the next day. As Jews we accept that we can do aveirot, and mitzvot, and the fact that we are nichshol with aveirot does not mean that our mitzvot are worthless.

Second, I think that we have all had a some pretty vile thoughts pop into out minds in the middle of davening or learning. Just think about the words that you are saying. Whenever a bad image pops in my head during tefila I say not now, and I think carefully of the words that I am saying, the kedusha of those words eventually pushes out the bad image.