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TOPIC: Ssa help 1273 Views

Re: Ssa help 26 Nov 2012 05:03 #148510

I know it seems harder bc you have this extra ssa issue but please realize that it is just that you repressed looking at women...realize that you are not gay and just dealing with this specifically bc you wanted to be tzanuah

Re: Ssa help 26 Nov 2012 05:26 #148511

  • Antartic
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Thank you so much for the support. Is there any way one can "clear" or "erase" the images and videos from his mind?
Or it will be something inside of you all your life?
Sometimes when I try to concentrate in tfilla or with tfilin all this images appear in my mind.

It sucks

Thx for the answers

Re: Ssa help 26 Nov 2012 05:30 #148512

  • nederman
I really hesitate to speak about this because I see that people's self-esteem is affected by this much more than by heterosexual porn, but I guess I can indeed speak about it because about half my fantasies used to be about men. In my opinion even saying "you are not gay" is not good enough. There is no such thing as gay. You may have desire for men, but that's not the problem. You are not to blame yourself for having a yetzer ha-ra. This is a major Christian belief, namely the belief in the Original Sin, and it's bogus, it's not a Jewish belief. Your attitude to your yetzer ha-ra should be that it's a sales person who is trying to sell you something, and the only bad thing you can do about it is to buy without due diligence, at least if you believe in the Mesillas Yesharim. Yiddishkeit is good for you. Investigate the pros and cons. Love yourself regardless of your specific yetzer ha-ra.

And if you can commit to loving yourself even if you do act out you, if you can act out and refuse to feel guilty because you just don't see the pros and cons yet, will likely realize that the yetzer ha-ra is not overwhelming, and that you do have a choice, and you can start actually seeing that you are better off not acting out. In this world.

And I can show anyone that this is true experimentally. It's true even after you have had the first drink.

Re: Ssa help 26 Nov 2012 05:45 #148513

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Wow, so true

I'm just really scared of my future. I want to get married and I want to love my wife, and I want to be with her acording to Jewish law, but I'm scared of this SSA problem. I don't want to destroy the girl's life.
Also I don't know if getting married will end this SSA problem.

So scared about the future!!

Re: Ssa help 26 Nov 2012 11:39 #148518

  • nederman
Your fear is the key to making progress. You feel the way you think. Your fear is generated by a thought that you are having. Maybe the thought is "I could destroy someone's life" but usually people do not feel fear because they are going to hurt somebody else, your fear is probably about what could happen to you. So I suspect the thought is something else. If you can bring out the thought you can also see if it's accurate and objective, or if needs to be corrected.

Let's assume that you get married as you are. What are you afraid might happen?

Re: Ssa help 26 Nov 2012 13:41 #148520

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nederman wrote on 26 Nov 2012 11:39:

Let's assume that you get married as you are. What are you afraid might happen?


Maybe I won't like to be with her? Maybe after several months if being married I will discover that it's not for me...

Is that a logical fear?

Re: Ssa help 26 Nov 2012 16:11 #148530

  • nederman
Antartic wrote on 26 Nov 2012 13:41:



Let's assume that you get married as you are. What are you afraid might happen?


Maybe I won't like to be with her? Maybe after several months if being married I will discover that it's not for me...

Is that a logical fear?


Yes. Good job.

Do you mean not consummating the marriage or being stuck in a marriage when you really desire something else?

Re: Ssa help 26 Nov 2012 16:35 #148533

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Being stuck after some time.

I actually also feel attracted to women... I'm realizing the attraction to men is just lust or something like that because I do want to be with women too.. But I don't know why I still want to look SSA porn... I haven't do anything with a guy, (I did with women cuz I'm a Baal tshuve) but maybe the thing is that I just want to look men but I won't like being with them... Could be?

When I was in yeshiva I stayed clean, even I could risk myself to say that I felt the SSA a little weaker. Now that I'm back let's say to the regular world I felt the SSA stronger than ever!

I'm realizing things just by writing here... That's interesting

I really appreciate that you are taking the time to try to solve someone else's problem, I want to thank you with all my soul.

Thx for listening

Re: Ssa help 26 Nov 2012 16:45 #148535

  • nederman
Antartic wrote on 26 Nov 2012 16:35:

Being stuck after some time.

I actually also feel attracted to women... I'm realizing the attraction to men is just lust or something like that because I do want to be with women too.. But I don't know why I still want to look SSA porn... I haven't do anything with a guy, (I did with women cuz I'm a Baal tshuve) but maybe the thing is that I just want to look men but I won't like being with them... Could be?

When I was in yeshiva I stayed clean, even I could risk myself to say that I felt the SSA a little weaker. Now that I'm back let's say to the regular world I felt the SSA stronger than ever!

I'm realizing things just by writing here... That's interesting

I really appreciate that you are taking the time to try to solve someone else's problem, I want to thank you with all my soul.

Thx for listening


So you like women too. Do you think you would be afraid to get married and be stuck even if you didn't fantasize about men any more, just women?

Re: Ssa help 26 Nov 2012 17:18 #148540

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nederman wrote on 26 Nov 2012 16:45:

So you like women too. Do you think you would be afraid to get married and be stuck even if you didn't fantasize about men any more, just women?


Please tell me how to don't fantasize with men...

I was just saying a hypothesis. Maybe I could be the gayest guy on earth, who knows? I haven't tried, boruch Hashem

But yes, I'm afraid to get stuck in marriage.

Thx

Regards

Re: Ssa help 26 Nov 2012 18:39 #148544

  • nederman
Antartic wrote on 26 Nov 2012 17:18:



So you like women too. Do you think you would be afraid to get married and be stuck even if you didn't fantasize about men any more, just women?


Please tell me how to don't fantasize with men...

I was just saying a hypothesis. Maybe I could be the gayest guy on earth, who knows? I haven't tried, boruch Hashem

But yes, I'm afraid to get stuck in marriage.

Thx

Regards


Okay. Basically right now you believe that fantasizing about men is your best chance at happiness. The reason you can't stop is because recognizing this is not an option.

Why do you want to stop? Because you want to stop feeling bad about it or because you suspect that you would be happier married?

Re: Ssa help 26 Nov 2012 20:16 #148550

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Ok......... so now you proved me that I was wrong, so its not just fantasizing, its being with them.
I suppose I will be happier if I could be with men. Thats what Im scared of.

Re: Ssa help 26 Nov 2012 22:20 #148552

  • nederman
It's not so simple to say that you'll be happier. What about when you are not having sex with them? Do you want to be happy at those times too? Can you list some ways in which being a Jew makes you happy? How do you feel on Shabbos, on Simchas Torah, when you go to a really good shiur? Would it make you happy to watch your one-year-old son smile at you?

Re: Ssa help 26 Nov 2012 23:05 #148554

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I dont know what to say.... I've dreamed lots of times with that scene. My son smiling at me.

For sure I want that.... No doubt...

Re: Ssa help 27 Nov 2012 01:16 #148556

  • nederman
Well, you can have that.

The truth is that married life is long and varied, it changes over time, and is different for everybody. There is no cookie-cutter husband or cookie-cutter wife. As long as you can consummate the marriage you should be equipped to at least get started. You know you have good intentions, and indeed you are obligated to procreate, and if you really want it Hashem will find you a woman to spend your life next to and you will also be together in olam ha-ba.

But you do have an obstacle to overcome, namely the secret suspicion that you really have no choice but to lust. The good news is that there is ample evidence that this belief is not accurate. Here you have a choice. You can use a support group like sexaholics anonymous, or you can measure just how much choice you do have, namely the cognitive approach. If you use this latter approach, as long as you can stay motivated thinking about your future happiness as a tatty, in a few days you will know that the lack of choice is just a mental con.

We know this belief is not accurate because there were times when we wanted to act out and we could not, and later we were suprised to see that the arousal had disappeared. For example, if I am thinking about sex and my Rav comes over to me I typically stop. Or else I might be thinking about sex at bedtime because I am looking forward to masturbating and then I unexpectedly pass out, and wake up the next morning and I run off and don't think about sex for two hours. And we also have a concept from the Talmud that we have a choice whether to be tzadik or rasha.

So in order to get strong you have to have a conscious thought (like a mental tape) that you do have a choice, and then readily move on to some engaging activity. What I usually remind myself of is the following:

"I cannot get aroused further unless I choose to think about sex. It doesn't grow by itself. If I engage in something else before I know it I will turn around and my arousal will be gone."

You can think this at any time, even when you are already very aroused. The idea is not to make it worse, and time is on your side as long as you don't think about sex.

At first it's important to use a fun, engaging activity. Be creative here. Think about the most exhilarating things you can do. After a few weeks it's not that important any more, because you are pretty strong.

Sleep is very important because it's harder to be mindful when you are tired. Bedtime was hard for me because I don't do anything engaging at bedtime, so at first I had a stiff drink to get myself to go to sleep. After a couple of weeks I didn't need the drink any more because by watching myself ignore the desire all day long I was more confident and I was able to just make my mind go blank, and then I fell asleep.

I would avoid certain behaviors that reinforce the belief of choicelessness that you are trying to disprove. For example, don't look away really fast when you see a woman coming down the street. Don't daven to be saved from the lust, etc. You want to act as if you were a healthy person who doesn't lower himself to thinking about sex but doesn't have a problem with it.

When you remind yourself that you do have a choice there may be times when it just feels like words and it doesn't seem to help any more. At such times play the reminder thought again but try to understand what it means. If necessary, remind yourself of why you are trying this tedious exercise, think about that little boy smiling at you.

It takes a few weeks of this to know in your heart that you are never going back.
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