So here is how last night's story ended:
I was talking to "an old friend" on line. We were talking for a bit and they started getting sexual. I didn't get into it because I still wasn't sure whether I wanted to fall. I really couldn't decide. I even told them that I was clean for 11 days and didn't think I wanted to fall! They were kind of tempting me... and then my internet completely died. I tried again and again to get it working again (why was I even trying???) and it just wouldn't start up again. This has never happened to me before. I woke up this morning and my internet is working just fine!

So, no thanks to me - I am still clean. But I woke up craving the fall just as much as yesterday... we will see how I do today. Honestly though, as you know from my thread my biggest problem is that I am not really at that point where I hate the schmutz and don't want it anymore. I know I shouldn't like it, but I still do. I know that i can't let it take over my life but I would love to be able to go back to it every once in a while - when I'm not doing other things. When I last 11 or 12 days clean I tell myself, "see? it clearly isn't taking over your life. you can now be one of those men who masturbates and watches porn in a "healthy" and enjoyable way." Do I really want to be clean? I'm not sure. Maybe I just want to feel normal and not addicted?

You need to try and remind yourself why YOU would type those words, I didnt write it, nobody on GYE wrote it, YOU did. Tell [s]us[/s] YOURSELF (and us for the chizuk ) why exactly made you want to "change your life" If your life was so good with all the acting out why didnt you want to stay with it? Dont forget to go over the Attitude section of the Handbook, you need the chazara! (me too taka)




Thank G-d. Hes looking out for you, and you are going to take preventative measure "x" or "_______" to show him how much you mean it when you say "I want out of this sandpit of lust" (not an exact quote)

You want the pleasure without the consequences. Im sorry buddy I just dont think thats possible, really if you allow yourself to get caught up in the fact that maybe maybr maybe its possible to taste without the side-effects, Itll probably just keep spiraling down-hill you gotta stop yourself from the beginning.

11-12 days is a big accomplishment, but it doesnt mean your out of the woods yet, ha raya, you wouldnt be having such a test if you could somehow just "be over it" ... Also if you were really "over it" then ask yourself, "why do I still want it then"

Wishing you much Hatzlacha!
JKG

What DovekbaShem shared was sweet! He spelled out exactly what I recently PM'd to somebody else on this very thread:



Inspiration, chizzuk, and advice does not get addicts sober. If he is a sex/lust addict, then this guy just has to hurt enough to use what actually really works for other pervs like him. Just like me and most addicts do.

Lots of love,

Dov

My friends, I am back. Today is day 2.

I am about to get really busy and life is about to get stressful. I won't have too much time to act out but, on the other hand, I will want that escape and relaxation when the stress kicks in. On the other hand (the third hand) what I need most in times of stress is to feel in control of my life and I know that the only way to feel in control is when I have control over this addiction.

I am sure I need to do something different this time... but what exactly?

Thanks for sticking with me, even when I failed myself ... at least I'm back, right?

Hey welcOme back.

I think it might be beneficial to plan ahead. Meaning since u are awere that the stress is doomed to hit you, make a plan as to what u might do when it hits. So either a geshmak workout/jog/run... Or an ice cream..... Or what ever else can calm you down. And ask Hashem to give you the koach to overcome the stresses- and to remain calm.

Also, I'm not sure if it will be an option but if you can be well rested it usually helps to remain calmer when stress hit. So if you can, goto sleep on time. Or maybe take a nap during the day.

Hatzlacha,
Chaim

Ps. We're here together!

nu, finally you are back, dovek! missed you. dont do it again (leave us for so long).


..or find yourself a chavrusa! (thats good even if you dont struggle. and even if it doesnt help, its not a reason not to do it (to learn, i mean))

chatzlocho, keep on informing us 'bout your progress.

dovekbashem wrote on 12 Jul 2012 05:41:

Are you more comfortable masturbating to pornography or going to prostitutes?



Is this enough? Is it keeping you away from masturbating to internet porn or going to prostitutes?

dovekbashem wrote on 05 Aug 2012 06:22:

Welcome back. Still don't know what to do differently this time? Still think you can "control" your addiction?
Keep coming back, brother, and update us on your progress.
When you get deathly tired from trying to control your life, take someone else's advice on what to do. That would be a good place to start.
Or else, you can just do the same thing over again:
dovekbashem wrote on 16 Jul 2012 23:15:


Are you convinced yet? If not, it's fine, just a pity for life wasted on the nefila-charoto roller-coaster that I know so well.

Hi Chevra,

It has been quite a while, but I'm back. I feel a little bit more silly every time this happens... as though crawling back to this site is another admission of failure. A) because I haven't succeeded in beating this addiction and because me coming back here is admitting that it is an addiction. But I'm back and I really do believe I have the commitment to stay clean this time.

Let me tell you where I stand right now. I am clean as of the beginning of Rosh Chodesh (Elul - don't be impressed) and I don't expect to fall off of the 90 day chart this time. My internet is currently unfiltered and I need help with that. I had to remove the K9 filter when the filtergabbai stopped offering his service and I needed quick access to lots of different websites including videos for school (that were being filtered out initially). Please tell me if you have any suggestions for which filter I should install and how I should do it. I obviously can't have the password on my own but I also need to be able to make changes pretty quickly.

Secondly, there has been a lot of talk about me opening up to someone and being honest about my situation. To be honest, I have never even opened up to anyone on this site with my real name and real information because I am too ashamed and too scared of coming face to face with the reality that this problem is really MINE. When I post under the disguise of "dovek" I can always hide my problems away in this computer with the guarantee that they will never follow the "real me" around in the real world. I really want to hear thoughts on this. Be honest, but be nice. This is a very scary process (much scarier and more stressful than I even would have imagined).

Thank you to the whole chevra for always being there. I've said this before - I really do feel honored to be "around" such incredible Jews.

Also - please say hi to me when I'm online. I would really like to be able to help out others and not just take from all of your kindness to me. I also like getting to know all of you a little bit better.

i haven't seen you yet, so first, Welcome (back) to the club!!

second, it's awesome that you have the courage to keep coming back, and that you are ready to open up!!

Openeing up is extremely helpful for the very reason that you wrote, we tend to try to leave our problem on the computer, and that way we delude ourselves that it is not really our problem, I see that you have gotten the advice before, it's like nike says "just do it", find somebody safe and you will certainly not regret it!

Have you signed up to chat? It's a great way to get to know people (you always have to be careful though, before getting to comfy).

Stick around, don't just leave when it "feels" like the problem has gone, that's when you can offer the most guidance and help to others, and thereby saving yourself from when the urges pop up again.

As for the filter, I have VFC and they have been pretty good about changes.

And have you tried accountability?

see ya around,

Welcome back Dovek,
it's great that you came back. Pidaini gave you some really good advice. Stick around, don't feel that you've beat it when the going gets a little easier. As someone said "Quitting smoking is easy, I've stopped smoking dozens of times". try something different this time. make it more real.
wishing you much hatzlocha
zs

Calling is a difficult choice to make, but if you look around the forum, you will see that many people have tried it and have reported that it was a big help to them. It was probably the single most important thing I did for my recovery.

One way you "could" ease into it is to join a 12 step phone conference. There you don't have to say much, but you could identify some people you wouldn't mind opening up to.

Really, you can get a google voice number if you want. That way you can always drop the number if you are uncomfortable... and you can always hang up, they are not sitting in your living room .


The fact that you are nervous to call is a great indication that it has the potential to really help you.

Give it a try. You won't be sorry.

Baruch Hashem I'm still clean since Rosh Chodesh. Much thanks to some very special people on this site. Honestly - thank G-D I found them!

I'm hoping for many more positive posts about success, but it will only happen with patience one day at a time.


I still haven't really called anyone or come clean to anyone. That's a whole other level of courage but I'm willing to listen to more advice or encouragement or just pushing me to go ahead and make the call.

Gutten Shabbos everyone!

dovekbashem wrote:


Hmmm..."around," (quotation marks were yours) indeed. Well put, chaver.

Yep, it's scary.

I want to share a story that happened to me and what I learned from it. It applies to your struggle for realness here, and I promise it is nice.

I was about 11 years old and with cousins at the dinner table, once. I swallowed a hard candy and - ploop! - it went right down the wrong pipe! I could not breath at all. Sat there a few seconds and realized I was, in fact, choking. So what did I do? I got up...and nonchalantly went to the bathroom to try and see what I could do about this little 'possibly dying?' problem.

Hear what this means?

It was clear as day to me right then that, while choking was not 'nice' at all, I must do it in private. It is just way too embarrassing to turn red, get desperate, and maybe even pass out - IN FRONT OF EVERYONE!! So I opted for the private, quiet death (maybe) in the restroom. It is very embarrassing to be 'reduced' to a quivering, panicking person trying to scream for help in front of other people who are really not expecting it cuz they are talking about a vort or the potato salad being undercooked. (Hitchcock knew this part of human frailty well and used it...but that's probably a non-GYE-approved digression, sorry!)

Well, it is obvious that I did not die, cuz here I am on GYE and stuff. (Even ZemirosShabbos has figured that out by now! ) Eventually, I desperately coughed, spewed, and hit my chest against the wall or whatever, and it popped out. B"H! (By the way, there I was, standing in front of the very same mirror in the very same bathroom and the very same spot that I was to masturbate in hundreds of times over the years to follow... hmmm, and He still saved me! So it is obvious that Hashem loves masturbaters, too. Bu-wah!)

Years later at a CPR class, I heard the instructor say that "If you are ever at a table and some one gets up without excusing themselves at all and just walks away, ask them if they are OK...if they do not answer you, follow them. For they may be choking and mortified (pun intended) that they would be shamed in public with desperation of gasping for their lives in front of the dinner crowd." They also told us that many people who have had a gran mal seizure in public feel deeply embarrassed when they come to. None of us want to have the vulnerability of being at the mercy of our bodily functions in public - whatever those functions are.

I was amazed. I was sure that I was the only one who even would think of escaping shame about choking! I was wrong. But more on that, in a minute.

What really happens to the poor guy who is there chokin' in the boys' room when he realizes to his utter dismay that he has failed at secretly disloging the thing from his throat and he is actually about to pass out? He sees that if he does not grow up and get help, he will soon die on that floor. And he will be found there anyway! (Ooh, there really is no escape from the embarrassment, is there?!) So what does he do?

Certainly, this prideful/shameful, choking fellow is eventually overcome by his own fear of his very real real death. That fear actually becomes greater that his fear of embarrassment for a few precious seconds. He ends up crawling out of the bathroom, blue-faced and wild-eyed. He causes an uproar and some panic ensues, till someone tries the Heimlich thing on him. Is he gonna make it? One thing we all know is that his chances always were better out there in the restaurant than alone in the bathroom!

Right?

Now to the porn and sex-with-self problem:

How many of us (including myself of course) hid in the bathroom till we couldn't take it any longer? It's so interesting that through high school and beyond I was always so sure that I was the only guy with this problem. Certainly the only one with it to this degree! The worst guy in yeshivah, for sure. Yeah, right...

Later on, I learned about shame, but did not see that operating in me...no, not me!

I tried to fix it with sforim, self-help books, rebbis and shrinks, then with getting married, then with sex demands from my poor wife, then with reading sex-addiction books and trying to do it on my own...all in the comfort of my own bathroom!

It got me screwed up enough to come out of my hiding and get real help, and my help sent me to SA.

Anyhow, over the years here and elsewhere I have met many good frum guys who are playing with fire, some even with considerable wreckage already, who just can't open up about it. They can't get real help, because they would rather keep choking alone in the bathroom. I understand them very well, cuz I have been there.

Each person has a different thing that is bigger than their shame and pride. Then we are ready to open up and get real help, for a change. How sad it is that many of us need to be choking so badly that we cannot walk out of the bathroom, but must crawl, blue-faced and with wreckage.

May Hashem help everyone else get out sooner!

- Dov

16 days and to be honest, I didn't even realize how long its been. I've been taking it just one day at a time and not focusing on how long its been or how long (forever!) I still have to go. What has been really important to me is realizing that loneliness and anxiety have been major triggers and possibly even the major reason why I fall. The past couple weeks have been particularly stressful, which makes me even more shocked that I am still standing clean.

When I get that feeling that I want to fall, I ask myself why. I may then notice that it is because I am stressed or anxious. I pause. Take a deep breath (or a few), listen to a good song... maybe do a few push-ups and get back on with my life. Realizing why I want to fall helps me realize how much it is NOT the solution. I also am doing my best to remember how anxious I used to get after I fell and how much stress this addiction used to bring me. Am I really feeling anxious?? Then falling is precisely what I need to avoid!

Other times I'll ask myself why and realize that its because I feel alone. That's weird for me to say because I always was so proud of my independence and the fact that I never really needed anybody. But this, I think, has been the best part of the past 16 days. I used to feel alone and go seek out my feeling of connection and affirmation from old "friends" of mine on webcam... or just seek the comfort of old "hobbies"... Now, when I feel alone I reach out! I reach out to my girlfriend which means that I am actually starting to build a meaningful relationship with a girl for the first time in a while. I reach out to my friends, which means I am keeping in touch. I reach out to my siblings which means I feel closer to my family. AND I reach out to certain special people on GYE... which means I've made one or two really deep and meaningful friendships with some of the best Jews I've ever met.

Do I still want to fall? YES. Has this "problem" of mine gone away? NO. Have there been many times in the past 16 days when I forgot why I wanted to go clean in the first place? YUP - that happened too! But I don't think it's just about getting rid of that desire to fall. In a sense, that desire is human. Its about realizing that falling isn't the answer - that LIFE is the answer. Its about realizing that we use our addiction to shy away from life and from others only to wonder why we feel so far away from everyone and everything. It isn't about suppressing the desire to fall. Its about realizing that, although we want it, we desire it much less than we want to build friendships, relationships and confront LIFE.

I used to be scared to start on the 90 day chart because I really couldn't imagine my life without the fall. I'm finally starting to realize that I really couldn't imagine living life at all... I couldn't imagine stepping out from behind the screen of my addiction and looking LIFE in the face. Finally, I think I'm starting to imagine...