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A platform of recovery for Jews who find themselves struggling with addictions to pornography, masturbation or other sexual problems. Post anonymously about your struggles without fear of anyone finding out who you are. Ask questions, post answers and be inspired! Get tips and guidance from the experts who moderate this forum, as well as from fellow strugglers.
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. 24 Aug 2009 15:15 #13910

  • MaalinBKodesh
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Last Edit: 17 May 2010 06:17 by .

Re: The possible dangers of our kiruv generation 24 Aug 2009 15:47 #13916

  • Kedusha
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Dear Maalin,

I think you now realize that men should only be Mekareiv men, and women should only be Mekareiv women.  See Rashi to Beraishis 12, 5.
Just as an alcoholic needs to avoid that first sip, a lust addict needs to avoid that first slip.Slip today? No way! ;)Fall today? No way, Jose'!
Last Edit: by russkiyyid.

Re: The possible dangers of our kiruv generation 24 Aug 2009 15:54 #13920

  • the.guard
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Thank you maalin for pointing this out. I have nothing to add. Ashrecha for your awareness and heightened sensitivity today! 
Webmaster of www.guardyoureyes.org - Maintaining Moral Purity in Today's World. We’re here on a quest ; it’s really all a test. Just do your best and G-d will do the rest.
Last Edit: by George.

Re: The possible dangers of our kiruv generation 26 Aug 2009 05:15 #14247

  • Tomim2B
The Lubavitcher Rebbe laid down strict rules in regard to maintaining a high standard of tznius - specifically when involved in kiruv with the opposite gender. Aside from Chabad students working in a pair (where each one watches out for the other), there is a policy that bochurim should not be involved in being mekarev women. For that there are girls.

2B
Last Edit: by thepowerofwill.

Re: The possible dangers of our kiruv generation 14 Sep 2009 21:43 #17891

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I heard from a baalas Teshuvah - " I want to go into Kiruv - but not my husand."
"Why?"
"I don't share"

I understand it's a real problem; the young hip handsome charismatic kiruv rabbis are the most in demand but unfortunately -  yeah, it's a real problem. real problem. Especially when you into relationships and pour out your guts and "you've changed my life". Good Kiruv seminaries have started to take note.

And you absolutely cannot risk your yadus for another persons. It's a principle of chayecha kodem. Maybe some people are immune.
Last Edit: by bafr.

Re: The possible dangers of our kiruv generation 15 Sep 2009 12:23 #18000

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I am in the midst of a somewhat different but also in some way similar dilemma.

I will try to daven hard these holy days for Hashem to give me a clear direction-i.e. what He really wants from me
Last Edit: by gyeboost.

Re: The possible dangers of our kiruv generation 15 Sep 2009 17:10 #18094

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Honestly, Maalin, I'm not there - I can only speak for myself that I wouldn't trust myself in that situation - shulchan aruch teaches us l'hisrachek min hanashim me'od me'od - especially half-dressed adoring pretty single ones - maybe she's interested in you - I would kindly direct her to the local Rebbetzin or even frum friends wife (call the local Rebbetzin first and just be bluntly honest with her - this girl is interested in Torah - but it's not healthy for you, can she spend some time with her? ). And with her - tell her that you really can't explain a woman's viewpoint and women's wisdom to her about the Yamim Noraim, and frankly spiritual matters are much better given over woman to woman, and you think that this Rebbetzin will be able to help her - which is all true! Just talking - in a way of "closeness" chiba - with a woman halachically  is just like touching her. And this sort of situation is classic. I know of a kollel wife who had a fellow over at her house for kiruv w/her husband, and he became a ben bayis yada yada - and he became fully  frum. And she divorced her husband and married him.

Danger! Danger! Danger!
Last Edit: by addictnowannabe.

Re: The possible dangers of our kiruv generation 15 Sep 2009 17:30 #18114

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Dear Maalin,

As I mentioned above, the Torah view of Kiruv is very clear: Men should be Mekareiv men, and women should be Mekareiv women.  See Rashi to Beraishis 12, 5.

And now, please repeat after me: "There is no such thing as a platonic friendship between a man and a woman."  At most, you can be "friendly," but never friends.
Just as an alcoholic needs to avoid that first sip, a lust addict needs to avoid that first slip.Slip today? No way! ;)Fall today? No way, Jose'!
Last Edit: by Hashem.

Re: The possible dangers of our kiruv generation 15 Sep 2009 17:45 #18126

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MaalinBKodesh wrote on 15 Sep 2009 17:43:


Kedusha and Kanesher, I get what you're both saying, but do you get where I'm coming from too and why this is hard and painful for me to think about?

Maybe I'm just in a bad mood today!


Dear Maalin,

Your feelings are perfectly understandable.
Just as an alcoholic needs to avoid that first sip, a lust addict needs to avoid that first slip.Slip today? No way! ;)Fall today? No way, Jose'!
Last Edit: by isimey.

Re: The possible dangers of our kiruv generation 15 Sep 2009 18:05 #18135

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Hmmm... this is a tough question. Tough situation. A person can't jump too many rungs on a ladder at once. It really boils down to where you feel you are holding, Maalin Bakodesh.
Webmaster of www.guardyoureyes.org - Maintaining Moral Purity in Today's World. We’re here on a quest ; it’s really all a test. Just do your best and G-d will do the rest.
Last Edit: by Jane.

Re: The possible dangers of our kiruv generation 15 Sep 2009 18:36 #18149

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Absolutely I see where you're coming - you asked what we thought you should do It's definitely a sticky situation and chas v'shalom, she's not a bad person or "bad" for being female (and pretty) , nor do I think -that you - or her are intentional. But platonic relationships don't happen; 60% of married men have affairs and 40% of women. Just a bad idea. Doesn't mean that you can't friendly, polite, helpful, concerned - but I am not a friend. I do not meet you one on one. I do not have long DMCs with you until late at night. Like the relationship you have with the mailman.

The fact seems to be that you're attracted to her, it just seems like schmoozing with her at starbucks is just a classic bad idea; like Guard said - you have to know where you're holding, and I would never advise any Baal Teshuvah to suddenly "flip out" and banish all of his/her opposite sex friends from their lives. It's a gradual process- I've seen girls do it. Phone call don't get returned, schedules are tight, and if everyone is getting frum together then everyone just gets it. And if there's a memory that doesn't - or shouldn't - go away - one calls a shadchan. I had the zechus of being such a shadchan; though they didn't get married

There's a way of "losing touch" - of course you don't make a declaration "thou are evil female, thou art sinful, banished be thee from mine holy sacred soul!" - or even a nice one.

All true, but I'm not being concrete about your current situation. like Guard, if you're not holding there, live to fight another day, and we all respect you.  If you can, try to be hook her up with another source without openly rejecting her or hurting her feelings. 

But yeah, it's complicated. You did have a relationship and suddenly whah-boom - but this is how those how-the-heck-did-I-end-up-here stories start.
Last Edit: by lev.

Re: The possible dangers of our kiruv generation 16 Sep 2009 18:04 #18458

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Maalin,

First of all - Kol HaKavod. I don't think that I would be able to resist a pretty nice smelling girl who wanted to hear about spirituality - sincerely! I mean, most of the girls in those situation have no idea of the effect they have on guys.

It's a real step in the way of Kedusha - and for me at least I would get a feeling of losing out, and I really struggle with that feeling - why can't I have _________ - but Chazal teach us - the Stiepler writes it openly - that any pleasure that one gives up for Hashem he will receive at the end. There's no lose here. Only guts - yours.
Last Edit: by Jewboy.

Re: The possible dangers of our kiruv generation 16 Sep 2009 18:08 #18461

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Maalin,

I agree with Kanesher - Kol HaKavod!

Just look at it this way: trying to be Mekareiv this girl would be a net loss to Klal Yisrael, because her gain would be your loss.
Just as an alcoholic needs to avoid that first sip, a lust addict needs to avoid that first slip.Slip today? No way! ;)Fall today? No way, Jose'!
Last Edit: by bentorahh613.
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